Author Topic: Can beer fix stack please?//Discussion of stacks. (Read 153 times)

Nmcdo · « **on:** August 29, 2013, 06:28:21 pm »

Beer, stack as we all know it works practically like it used to when it was first made by gosu.
But I find that sometimes it doesn't seem to work completely like it used to where it would push the wolf
now I find more often the wolves will still kill you when they should have been pushed away. But with the stack we use that happens
but it is delayed more (the push) and they will still kill you. This doesn't happen in all cases ofc but I was wondering
about the topic of could it be fixed // does it need to be? Dont get me wrong I'm just showing what I have seen of new stack.
Whats everyone else's opinion? And yes, stack is still a very good farm.

FaIIen-GoD · « **Reply #1 on:** August 29, 2013, 07:07:55 pm »

That's not because of stack ... u find that the pros can push away wolves more oftenly than starters or third grade sheeptaggers because they put stacks more correctly,
you will discover that as you get more experienced.

Map · « **Reply #2 on:** August 29, 2013, 10:20:53 pm »

Makes no difference between you or him, worst theory of 2013!

It is a bigger chance if wolf is cutting down. For sure it is easier if wolf stands closer to the place where he gets stacked to. Still it is mostly random, you cannot change it.

Nmcdo · « **Reply #3 on:** August 29, 2013, 11:17:30 pm »

First of all, its not a theory. I was just pointing out some stuff I felt like there was.
@ Trollpro It's not that I placing it differently it's that I feel its effect is more slower, but yeye I could be wrong ofc.
And yes I do know how you place stack effects how it will effect how it works on the wolf. But I just felt like that effect was slower.
@mappy and maybe it random but I just though maybe it was because beer made a whole new stack. (differently made in some ways//coding?)
None the less I just felt like the push effect could have been slower now.

Chakra · « **Reply #4 on:** August 30, 2013, 02:48:49 am »

You people really need to take a basic programming class or something so you stop saying silly things.

Are people under the impression that the map editor randomly changes game mechanics, such as when a shepherd is "pushed" via a stack farm? Like, you think it's a trigger or something? It is clearly a game engine issue that may be addressable in the editor, but there is no trigger that I know of that current exists in the map that has any effect on mechanic.

And please never attribute game mechanics as being random unless you believe they are explicitly made random. Do you think Blizzard has a check inside their functions that says "if (rand() < .2) then PUSH UNIT"? Like, you really think they just added a random check to make the function behave chaotically?

If the effect seems random, when all logic would suggest that it shouldn't be random, then you simply don't understand what is happening. It isn't random, it is chaotic to you

It is like when I play Bulldog and turds say a jump is "random." You think Blizzard added a "jump unit in (rand() * 360) direction"

No, you simply don't understand how closest pathable locations work.
Or when mirror image against a pillar and your real/fake goes far off into the distance. You think they added a "move one to this random location"

Or when you you order a shepherd to pass a narrow area and the shepherd REFUSES to go there? You think they added a "if (rand() < .1) DO WEIRD ****"

Similarly, the effect stacks have on shepherd's isn't random. Some important factors seem to be (note I don't know everything about the mechanic, just important parts) if they are moving, if they make a point-order/target-order, where the point/target is of the issued order, and if they are holding position. Even if you don't exactly know what matters, you, over time, adapt to these things. Chances are wolves simply realize (perhaps unconsciously) that if they don't spam click when they expect a stack, they won't instantly be moved away. And if they do spam click, they will near-instantly be pushed (doing both have their benefits).

Anyways, it could of course be manipulated with the editor. Just as auto-targeting can be.

XXXandBEER · « **Reply #5 on:** August 30, 2013, 03:02:15 am »

Quote from: Chakra on August 30, 2013, 02:48:49 am

You people really need to take a basic programming class or something so you stop saying silly things.

Are people under the impression that the map editor random changes game mechanics, such as when a shepherd is "pushed" via a stack farm? Like, you think it's a trigger or something? It is clearly a game engine issue that may be addressable in the editor, but there is no trigger that I know of that current exists in the map that has any effect on mechanic.

And please never attribute game mechanics as being random unless you are explicitly made random. Do you think Blizzard has a check inside their functions that says "if (rand() < .2) then PUSH UNIT"? Like, you really think they just added a random check to make the function behave chaotically?

If the effect seems random, when all logic would suggest that it shouldn't be random, then you simply don't understand what is happening. It isn't random, it is chaotic to you

It is like when I play Bulldog and turds say a jump is "random." You think Blizzard added a "jump unit in (rand() * 360) direction" No, you simply don't understand how closely pathable locations work.
Or when mirror image against a pillar and your real/fake goes far off into the distance. You think they added a "move one to this random location"
Or when you you order a shepherd to pass a narrow area and the shepherd REFUSES to go there? You think they added a "if (rand() < .1) DO WEIRD ****"

Similarly, the effect stacks have on shepherd's isn't random. Some important factors seem to be (note I don't know everything about the mechanic, just important parts) if they are moving, if they make a point-order/target-order, where the point/target is of the issued order, and if they are holding position. Even if you don't exactly know what matters, you, over time, adapt to these things. Chances are wolves simply realize (perhaps unconsciously) that if they don't spam click when they expect a stack, they won't instantly be moved away. And if they do spam click, they will near-instantly be pushed (doing both have their benefits).

Anyways, it could of course be manipulated with the editor. Just as auto-targeting can be.

Yay, I don't have to flame any of you today ty chakra

Celestial_One · « **Reply #6 on:** August 31, 2013, 02:44:39 am »

Gosu didn't make stacks, Arxon did

Nmcdo · « **Reply #7 on:** August 31, 2013, 04:50:43 pm »

Arxon made stacks? Cool! Learn something everyday lol.

Chakra · « **Reply #8 on:** August 31, 2013, 08:00:22 pm »

However, the concept of allow buildings to be built anywhere was developed many years prior on SC1.

Further, a building that could be built anywhere was added to Sheep Tag before stacks were invented, the Cyclone Farm. It had cost a lot more, had the Cyclone ability, and was buggy on some maps.

I can only guess that stackable buildings existed in WC3 even before that, as they were a building trend in tower defences at the time.

Nmcdo · « **Reply #9 on:** August 31, 2013, 10:45:07 pm »

Interesting, I it probably is true that they had stackable buildings before st.
But hey? Who really knows?

drewisfat · « **Reply #10 on:** August 31, 2013, 11:14:44 pm »

I do.

Stack farm isn't a unique complicated editor trick or something, there's line in object editor for it.

Saying it was based off the cyclone farm is really.... misleading. It wasn't as if the cyclone farm was used as a stack farm lol. The main barrier wasn't even that it was 75 gold, but that it was prohibited (it caused people to d.c from game), so only the pubbiest of the pubs would build it, (and not like they are gonna do a lot of jumps).

I can with some certainty say that the stack farm was an invention gagazet dreamed up without thinking of the cyclone farm in mind. He convinced Arxon to go along with it because most people wanted an anticamp, just not as noob as slow/cyclone on wisp. (In other words building stacks in the pen wasn't a negative side effect of stack farms... it was the INTENDED effect)

Beer was an idiot though and made their model smaller. stacks look returded in revo now.

HaWkys · « **Reply #11 on:** September 01, 2013, 04:30:57 am »

Im almost certain it was made in some type of ultimate sheep tag before it was ever in revo. O.o

XXXandBEER · « **Reply #12 on:** September 01, 2013, 04:37:03 am »

Quote from: drewisfat on August 31, 2013, 11:14:44 pm

Beer was an idiot though and made their model smaller. stacks look returded in revo now.

Typical fat neck beard drew liking the chubsters...

drewisfat · « **Reply #13 on:** September 02, 2013, 01:36:58 am »

If anything it looks fatter now because it's been squished.

Well Hawkys stack farm was added in 7.1 Revised III which is a couple years older than the first revo map

Spoofy · « **Reply #14 on:** September 02, 2013, 06:51:04 am »

beers farm looks PHAT now, not FAT. BEER REALLY WILL "BERRY" (beer knows what this means!) the community, gG.

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Author Topic: Can beer fix stack please?//Discussion of stacks. (Read 153 times)

Nmcdo

Can beer fix stack please?//Discussion of stacks.

FaIIen-GoD

Re: Can beer fix stack please?//Discussion of stacks.

Map

Re: Can beer fix stack please?//Discussion of stacks.

Nmcdo

Re: Can beer fix stack please?//Discussion of stacks.

Chakra

Re: Can beer fix stack please?//Discussion of stacks.

XXXandBEER

Re: Can beer fix stack please?//Discussion of stacks.

Celestial_One

Re: Can beer fix stack please?//Discussion of stacks.

Nmcdo

Re: Can beer fix stack please?//Discussion of stacks.

Chakra

Re: Can beer fix stack please?//Discussion of stacks.

Nmcdo

Re: Can beer fix stack please?//Discussion of stacks.

drewisfat

Re: Can beer fix stack please?//Discussion of stacks.

HaWkys

Re: Can beer fix stack please?//Discussion of stacks.

XXXandBEER

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drewisfat

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Spoofy

Re: Can beer fix stack please?//Discussion of stacks.

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