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Author Topic: Dota 2 Custom gaming  (Read 3891 times)

glow

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Dota 2 Custom gaming
« on: June 09, 2014, 10:26:51 pm »
IDK how it works, but this is a message to Chakra, Gosusheep, XXXandBEER, WRDA, and whoever edits and makes custom games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5g6lpEEuII

Maybe you would like to go make sheep tag there NOW to get good exposure =)

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Nmcdo

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2014, 11:17:10 pm »
IF you could make sheep tag on this: it would be amazing to say the least~!
But Idk if making it would be possible, and if jumps and how building would work (Would BBing work / how would it work, etc).
Also free picture of Katama enjoy!:
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FaceOfMelinda

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2014, 06:03:24 pm »
Can the MONSTERgeeks of the community fix an st on dota 2 or? Or is there a modding team that create maps only?

Celestial_One

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2014, 07:59:01 pm »
Anyone is free to mod the game, I believe.

Nmcdo

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2014, 05:03:01 am »
http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/26gmvt/announcing_d2moddin_a_custom_game_platform_play/
GET THEM TO MAKE SHEEP TAG YEEEEEEEE COMMENT LIKE HELL ABOUT SHEEP TAG!!!
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SHEePYTaGGeRNeP

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2014, 10:42:42 am »
http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/26gmvt/announcing_d2moddin_a_custom_game_platform_play/
GET THEM TO MAKE SHEEP TAG YEEEEEEEE COMMENT LIKE HELL ABOUT SHEEP TAG!!!
I did mr "PM_ME_YOUR_COCK" :D

FaceOfMelinda

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2014, 12:01:29 pm »
Don't tell them to make ST lol....

Their idea of sheep tag is some base-version of ROTS.

We need a SUPERgeek from the community to make it, otherwise it's gonna be a big flushing TOILET.

So we need them to hire a supergeek to make it with their platform. This doesn't sound realistic :(

Nmcdo

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2014, 05:07:53 pm »
Link them a version of modern day revo like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcxOep67bHc
and maybe tell them to re make revolution etc.
But yeah I think having a monster geek from our community would also be nice.
I know glitch nova still has some hope even though its going to take a long time, also I haven't spoke to chakra about it in a while so.
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Chakra

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2014, 02:36:16 am »
Aname just dropped out of Glitch Nova. Said maybe 5 years. That being said, I'm still working on my pathfinding algorithms, so...
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 02:38:44 am by Chakra »

Myll

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2014, 04:37:06 am »
Hi ST community, I actually am interested in making sheep tag. I currently have one mod on D2moddin, Warlocks (http://d2modd.in/mods/warlocks). I believe ST is completely doable. There's already a sheep model, and some building models. I already know how to work with the API pretty well.

Possible obstacles:
- I know nothing about path finding
- I don't the physics of "jumping" off of hills/cliffs in ST (I guess this goes hand-in-hand with path finding.)
- I asked the Element TD Dota 2 dev, and currently you can't get the "building grid preview" before building a building. However, you can show an AoE circle before building it.

So I think what I'll do is put together a basic map, with sheep, shephards, farm creation, and go from there. I'll be posting my progress on my twitch: www.twitch.tv/myll_
« Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 04:43:21 am by Myll »

XXXandBEER

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2014, 05:13:16 am »
Hi ST community, I actually am interested in making sheep tag. I currently have one mod on D2moddin, Warlocks (http://d2modd.in/mods/warlocks). I believe ST is completely doable. There's already a sheep model, and some building models. I already know how to work with the API pretty well.

Possible obstacles:
- I know nothing about path finding
- I don't the physics of "jumping" off of hills/cliffs in ST (I guess this goes hand-in-hand with path finding.)
- I asked the Element TD Dota 2 dev, and currently you can't get the "building grid preview" before building a building. However, you can show an AoE circle before building it.

So I think what I'll do is put together a basic map, with sheep, shephards, farm creation, and go from there. I'll be posting my progress on my twitch: www.twitch.tv/myll_

I'd rather move to a standalone game entirely. I just tried to play some custom games HLW, Pudge Wars etc. And that d2mod site has so many bugs and glitches it was almost unplayable. So I'd rather just keep playing on Wc3. Also you have to still connect and play through steam which is annoying as well. But be my guest if you can make it I'll try it, but I can almost guarantee it won't be nearly as good as it is and was on Wc3.

Chakra

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2014, 06:53:20 am »
The physics of jumping are actually relatively simple.

WC3 uses an entirely grid-based movement and pathfinding system. What this means is that you can subdivide the entire map into a distinct, regular grid. WC3's reduces down to a 32x32 resolution grid system. This means that a normal farm, which is 128x128 units, is made up of 16 unique cells. All buildings are made up of exact, fixed amount of cells, called a pathingmap; the smallest object that uses a pathingmap is an item, which you've probably already seen as taking up 1/16th of a farm or 1/4th of a tiny farm.

Units also are interpreted on this grid system, though they are freely, non-bound agents. Units have a collision size, which simple means radius. What WC3 does is reduce the circle around a unit into the cells that it is occupying and the cells it is not. The cells it occupies are considered by the game for all calculations, not the free circle around the unit.

After you understand that, things actually become much simpler. The movement system no doubt uses some type of grid-based pathfinding algorithm, my guess would be some variant of A*. The actual system you use doesn't really matter, as we, as players, don't really adapt that much to the pathfinder, but rather the jump physics.

Jump physics are separate depending on whether it is mirror imaging or simple unit relocation (i.e., building a farm on yourself). The latter is done by using a regular system that moves your unit to the closest spot you can be placed, and it does this by scanning grid-spaces rather than linear distance. I don't remember the exact number off the top of my head, but if a unit cannot be placed within n spaces, it is simply kept where it is. The important tidbit is that a line of diagonal cells is worth the same as a horizontal cells. This means that if the first open diagonal location is 8 cells while the closest horizontal or vertical distance is 9 cells, it'll place you diagonally. Why does this matter? Because, using a 32x32 cell resolution, going diagonally across 8 cells is ~362, while horizontally across 9 is only 288, so the game prefers to jump you diagonally over horizontally/vertically by a root 2 factor.

The final piece of physics that matters is mirror jumping. What happens you mirror jump is that it takes your current position and facing angle, then picks two points left and right a regular distance from your start position. This distance is freely changeable within WC3, but by default is, I believe, 64 units, meaning a perfect farm space exists between the two if a user images in the open (though one might not be buildable, as buildablility works on a 64x64 resolution grid, so it is likely one of those grids is infested by a single 32x32 cell or two). Once we have this point, the game will then try to find the nearest point that the unit can actually be placed. The cool thing is if this point is on another level (i.e., up or down a cliff or two). This means it must find the closest point on another cliff. This distance it seeks is a bit different than normal jumping, and may be related to the Area of Effect field for the ability, which is set to 1000, but I'm not sure (haven't tested it).

The next thing it does is a near repeating of the above, except now it tries to find a placeable location on the original level (as you can't jump up or down a level, without some active manipulation). This is, of course, a repeat of finding the closest location. The maximal distance this will go is again some unrelated figure to the previous two and, again, may be related to Area of Effect, but I'm not sure. I know, however, that it is not the same as the former calculation, and it seems a bit short to be the first one.

I think that details all the complex physics of ST. The actual figures, once you understand what is happening, is easily testable by playing around with terrain and placing farms (tiny farms would be easiest, though a custom one with item-sized pathing would be more precise, though it should replace an item's pathingmap, as buildings can only be placed on a 64x64 grid).

Nmcdo

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2014, 04:28:51 pm »
I didn't have a chance to read everything that Beer and Chakra said but I love the fact you're attempting making Sheep Tag on DotA 2, ask for help from chakra and beer as they know about Wc3 physicics. FULL SUPPORT Myll, be back later to post more.
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Myll

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2014, 06:49:02 pm »
@Chakra Thanks for the post. Dota 2 also uses a 32x32 grid resolution. One caveat is buildings will be units with circle collision. However, I can completely eliminate all default collision in Dota 2 by giving every unit the Phased attribute (Phase boots in Dota 2). So, I'm thinking I can manually create and continuously update the pathing map for every unit throughout the game. This would be a very powerful solution IMO.

Chakra

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2014, 06:59:31 pm »
Even if they have circle collision, it's entirely possible their pathing system still reduces them to grids. I.e., you might not have to worry about actual units, and since buildings don't move, you only need to update on creation/removal.

You can test if it reduces them to grids quite easily. As you said the system uses a 32x32 grid, just create a narrow area and place dummy 1-collision units in the way. If it requires ~32 of them in a line to block it, then it uses a vector-based pathing (or a very small movement grid). If it's like WC3, then just one or two units will work.

I.e., in WC3 you can only fit 16 1-collision units in the space of a farm. That's because the unit can either take up zero cells or one cell, and a farm is made up of 16 cells.

 

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