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Author Topic: Map Development (Revisited)  (Read 389 times)

Alph4bet

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Map Development (Revisited)
« on: November 01, 2013, 10:04:12 am »
Ok community you now have a new map making team.
Chakra and myself will be developing Sheep Tags future map provided the community is ready for it. What we require is that you use whatever our latest map is for pubs/private games. No matter what, you use our latest released map, that way we can get it tested thoroughly. The only time you shouldn't use the map is if it is bugged and deemed unplayable(We will deem it should the bug be proven swiftly), even then it has to be a pretty big bug not to use it(Most bugged maps if released will be fixed within a day or two so as not to hinder Sheep Tag play too much). Only Stable releases are to be used for future tournaments/Clan wars. At the moment the default stable version is Sheep Tag ReVoLution 7.4.3 made by Beer.

With this new Map we will be testing quite a few things and balancing it upon the feedback we receive, alongside our own judgement of how the game play is going. The map will no longer be named "Sheep Tag ReVoLution", that series in map is finished. It will be simply "Sheep Tag" and then of course include the version number.

Alongside the map we will be producing a website to host the map on. It will be made with its sole purpose to download the map and view the history of changelog. All maps will be available for download from this website. The website url which will be up within the next few weeks is http://GetST.net. This website will be connected with hardfarm.net(Our new community website), Remember both websites will not replace these forums, they are to be used alongside the forum until we have integrated a forum of our own(The forum will be the last thing to happen, may not happen for another half year). You will also be able to download the latest Sheep Tag Party, Sheep Tag Maze and Sheep Tag bulldog from this location, with a view of their change logs.

This will be the first and last change-log listed on the forums, all others will be listed on GetST.net
Sheep Tag 1.1 Changelog
Rework Map startup
-Should Red not intervene the map will automatically -fair, then -reverse. It will do this twice before ending.
-Red has 20 seconds to intervene.

Shepherd Naming Reworked
- All Wolves for the time being will be the same names of the old revo before beer messed with it. We will have polls later which consist of actual sheep taggers voting for the names to add. These polls will be done in person and recorded by myself.

Sheep and Shepherd economy Reworked
Sheep
- Gold/Money Farms Removed
- Gold Sharing Removed, and the sheep has the option of golding all once they are a wisp.
- Wisp Bounty removed (No gold will be awarded for saving).
- Gold per second increased by 1(This needs to be balanced/tested).
Shepherd
- Gold Sharing removed completely.
- Sheep bounty removed (No gold will be awarded for killing).
- Farm bounty removed.
- Gold per second increased by 1.5.(This needs to be balanced/tested).

Farm Changes
- Like the current map, Normal, invisible, Hard, Sentry, Frost and Wide farms will be 2 hit normal, 3 hit aura.
- Strong Farm removed.
- Upgraded will be 4 hit normal, 5 hit aura.
- Stack farm gold cost decreased from 12 - 10 and like the current map stack farms will not be able to be built in middle.
- Sentry farm gold cost increased from 12 - 15, Far sight ability removed.
- Aura farm reworked, increased movement speed aura from 2% to 6%. Gold cost decreased from 45 - 40.
- Frost Farm removed as an upgrade, is now available in Sheep building list, building time takes 6 seconds. Hotkey is z.
- Magic farm Gold cost decreased from 52 - 50,
- The structure menu has been altered it is now listed Wide->Sentry->Hard->Tiny at top, Aura->Stack->Normal->Upgraded in center, Sentry->Invisibility at bottom.

Item Changes
- Removed all claws of attack(+8, +16, +45).
- Removed claws of attack recipe.
- Removed Cloak of Flames.
- Removed Mining Sythe.
- Removed Blizzard.
- Removed Speed Potion.
- Reworked Redbull. Now grants 7% increased movement speed for 20 seconds with wings. Has only one charge and not stackable with itself. Gold Cost decreased from 30/42 to 25/30.
- Golem gold cost decreased from 70/98 to 60/72.
- Iron Golem gold cost decreased from 120 to 100.
- Strength potion reworked. Only gives enough attack damage to kill an upgraded farm in one hit if aura is on it(Can no longer kill other shepherds if spamming strength potions). gold cost decreased from 30/42 to 20/24
- Brillance Aura reworked, Now called TrollPros **** of Insight, grants 2 mana regen to all Shepherds Globally(Weed reference). Does not stack. Gold cost decreased from 70/98 to 70/84.
- Endurance Aura reworked, Movement speed increased by 4% to all Shepherds globally. Does not stack with itself. Gold cost decreased from 80/112 to 70/84.
- Bomber gold cost increased from 40/60 to 50/60.
- Sheep Locater gold cost decreased from 40/56 to 30/36.
- Invisibility Potion reworked, renamed to Shoops Potion of Invisibility can now be bought from the Shop and -buy invis/-buy invibility potion. The same true sight radius as current map remains.
- Mana Potion gold cost decreased from 35/49 to 35/42.
- Beam of Strength Potion gold cost decreased from 80/112 to 80/96.
- Boots of Speed gold cost decreased from to 50/60, does not stack with itself.
- Sobi Mask gold decreased from 40/56 to 40/48.
- Gloves of Haste reworked, now gives 30% increased attack speed. Gold from 80/112 to 50/60.
- Necklace of Invulnerability gold cost decreased from 80/112 to 60/72.

Ability Changes
Shepherd
- Changed the hotkey for stomp from d to q.
Note: Farsight is now listed as deprecated and is in danger of being removed next release should arguments be insufficient or non-existent. It will be replaced by Crystal ball.

Shepherd Changes
- Attack remains at 149/149 same as current map.
- Anti Stack stomp added to be exactly the same as the current map.
- Movement speed rework. Shepherds base movement speed has been lowered by 20, making it only 20 faster than Sheep.
   Max movement speed has been increased from 450 to 470 
   Boots/Endurance/Redbull all now stack upon each other until Shepherd is at max.
- Changed the order of the spells to meet q(stomp), w(wards), e(divine shield), r(Mirror), and then above unchanged is z(show/hide) and f(farsight).
- I have temporarily changed the items given to Shepherds, if it's 3 shepherds Redbull is given and a strength potion if there is more than one sheep. If there are two Shepherds, golems and Redbull are given. If there is one shepherd, a golem, boots, gloves and strength potion is given.

Miscellanious
- Apart from Gosu mountain, GosuSheep's name will be removed from the loading screen credits, and will be mentioned in the Game info panel(f9) to enter it.
- Beers name will also be removed from the interface and will be mentioned in the same Game Info panel(f9) to enter it.
- Arxon has been credited for ideas still used (Such as -buy, tree bomber etc)
- The Money Farm count where the food would be is now a movement speed indicator.


Having said that, all discussion relating to suggestions on this map is welcome, your suggestion will be read, and may be implemented at a later stage. Chakra and I will be developing this map like GosuSheep had done in the past. Taken good ideas, implemented them. If you want your idea implemented you need to present it well. WE NEED YOU TO TEST IT, OTHERWISE WE DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S BALANCED! Stay tuned for updates about GetST.net

EDIT: PLEASE READ THE WHOLE THING BEFORE POSTING! I know it's long!
EDIT 2: Added a slight Shepherd change, a slight farm change, reworked the sell/buy system,  and Ability changes
 
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 03:01:26 am by Alph4bet »

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baiten92

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Re: Map Development (Revisited)
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2013, 11:13:59 am »
Finally.... Cloaks removed ! YEEEEEEE

SHEePYTaGGeRNeP

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Re: Map Development (Revisited)
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2013, 11:24:04 am »
I don't know about the wolf gold / claw changes.
We'll just have to see, I think sheep will last super long now.

baiten92

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Re: Map Development (Revisited)
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2013, 11:26:36 am »
Gold share for wolf is key to get faster wins, but we should just remove cloaks and all OP shits, but let gold share, otherwise yeah it'll be long long long very LONG games..

SharingMyHeroes

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Re: Map Development (Revisited)
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2013, 03:09:54 pm »
Basically its Shoop map?

#against 20mins wolf rounds
#against this map.

Alph4bet

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Re: Map Development (Revisited)
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2013, 06:43:44 pm »
SharingMyHeroes(JM??)
You have done no analysis what the current changes will do, you haven't even tested it, Who says sheep will last 20 minutes? They shouldn't last 20 minutes, Wolves start off with 2 hit right from the bat, they don't get as much gold(Still need to work out the Shepherd and sheep economy, and balance it, hence the testing), But all items will(already do) cost less. Wolves will never get one hit(at this moment in time), but you shouldn't need one hit because sheep will never be able to mass upgraded farms(They have no money farms and are getting gold decently slowly).
Yes I'm definitely taking Shoops ideas, I want to see how it goes.

"Hitler map", whole community at the moment is run by idiots who are trying to exile others(Hitler csb kids?) Community is lucky they even have people who attempt to run a forum(Sidey), pay for host bots(CMK/Exalius/Whoever owns sor bot) and attempt map making(Chakra/me/gosu/beer)/setting up a competitive scene(Shoop/shya/cmk). 

Baiten point is to not rely on gold share, you shouldn't need it. What we need to figure out is how much gold Shepherds should be getting over time etc...

BTW as another test after we get the Shepherd/Sheep economy balanced I want to try giving Shepherds one hit after they reach a certain amount of experience(We'll make them get experience over time and killing sheep will boost their experience etc..) But that's later, first got to balance this map.

SharingMyHeroes

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Re: Map Development (Revisited)
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2013, 08:40:41 pm »
I didn't test it and I won't test it.
This map looks BORING as ****.
ATM = wolf is BORING even though you win right after getting cloaks
YOUR MAP = you can't even get CLOAKS / CLAWS anything. You don't have golems before 10mins since no gold bounty and no gold sharing.
Definetly against an even more BORING map.

You want to develop our map? Then I suggest you take beers map and do small changes, changes that you discuss with people. not complete 0 sense **** that makes it even more boring.

#Again, I am against.

baiten92

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Re: Map Development (Revisited)
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2013, 09:32:34 pm »
What to basically do on few steps :

1- take beer map
2- change cloaks
3- remove far sight
4- lower sentry sight radius
5- all fixen (keep gold sharing or mass long games)

kind regards.
baiten ur favorite and lovely SheepTag player

Spoofy

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Re: Map Development (Revisited)
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2013, 09:41:58 pm »
yeee boycotting this map. all i see is nostalgic pride, long-boring games, and some power struggles.

Quote
pay for host bots(CMK/Exalius/Whoever owns sor bot)
- lol

Quote
whole community at the moment is run by idiots who are trying to exile others(Hitler csb kids?)
- what an extremely vague statement. without CsB sheeptag would not be active at the moment. also, for the most part the players we ban, we have good reason to ban. a simple analogy, people hate on cops, they trash talk them and call them idiots, but when they are no longer there, everything goes to chaos.

Quote
You have done no analysis what the current changes will do, you haven't even tested it, Who says sheep will last 20 minutes? They shouldn't last 20 minutes, Wolves start off with 2 hit right from the bat, they don't get as much gold(Still need to work out the Shepherd and sheep economy, and balance it, hence the testing), But all items will(already do) cost less. Wolves will never get one hit(at this moment in time), but you shouldn't need one hit because sheep will never be able to mass upgraded farms(They have no money farms and are getting gold decently slowly).
Yes I'm definitely taking Shoops ideas, I want to see how it goes.


why fix what is not broken? map is slightly outdated and needs some fixes such as removing cloaks, but other then that I do not see many problems. give beer some credit for keeping the map alive.

also, shoops ideas looked insanely retarded. 100 gold reward for killing a stack farm? the ****? why are we using his ideas? is it because hes played since the dinosaur ages or because he has logic?

i really think its time for players to throw away "player-name ego" and past accomplishments. live in the now and prepare for the future.


#hawkyshashtags
#against 20 mins wolf rounds
#against the map
#vampire-like attitude
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 09:54:40 pm by Spoofy »

Alph4bet

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Re: Map Development (Revisited)
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2013, 03:22:37 am »
Once again none of you are reading the change logs are you serious?

I didn't test it and I won't test it.
This map looks BORING as ****.
ATM = wolf is BORING even though you win right after getting cloaks
YOUR MAP = you can't even get CLOAKS / CLAWS anything. You don't have golems before 10mins since no gold bounty and no gold sharing.
Definetly against an even more BORING map.
@EVERYONE THINKING THE SAME THING AS SharingMyHeroes.
YOU WONT get Golem before ten minutes?, this is incorrect, you are not reading the changes, you're not reading the idea. Please, stop spamming stuff that isn't true. We are trying to boost the shepherd gold without relying on farms, bounties and gold sharing. The aim ISN'T to make Shepherd much harder, but boost individual skill whilst keeping the team aspect of it there. You will get gold as fast as you need it(THIS IS WHY WE NEED TO TEST/BALANCE IT). The aim is to have everyone get as much gold as they need, it's not to make rounds last 20 minutes. In my map everyone will have Golem gold within the first minute(even earlier if you go to the shop, around 50 seconds in). I need to balance all items too, make them cost the right amount. I can only do this with testers, stop being an idiot who has the attention span of a 5 year old and READ the whole thing. Not only read, but understand it. Contribute properly by supporting the idea and suggesting a way we could balance it.

yeee boycotting this map. all i see is nostalgic pride, long-boring games, and some power struggles.
@Spoofy, You're miss using the word nostalgic, you have no idea what it means, clearly I'm not trying to recreate Sheep tag from the past it has never been like this, it has never been to what it currently is on BEERS either. SPOOFY read this carefuly The third quote of mine you did clearly states, I do not intend for there to be long boring games. If the game is long it means Shepherds are EXTREMELY bad and Sheep are Very good. What I intend is for Sheep to die at any minute of the game, With the current map, they can not die at any minute of the game because between 3 - 10 minutes, Sheep become more powerful than the shepherd by far. I would like to see that gone, instead make 1 - 20 minutes equal opportunity for the shepherd to kill the sheep team. which effectively means that my map ONCE BALANCED is harder than beers map to survive at all times of the game.

what an extremely vague statement. without CsB sheeptag would not be active at the moment. also, for the most part the players we ban, we have good reason to ban. a simple analogy, people hate on cops, they trash talk them and call them idiots, but when they are no longer there, everything goes to chaos.
I'll respond to this quote in a completely different topic that I'll make today.

why fix what is not broken? map is slightly outdated and needs some fixes such as removing cloaks, but other then that I do not see many problems. give beer some credit for keeping the map alive.
@Spoofy, the map is broken and has been for a while. It is still boring for Shepherds between 3 - 7 minutes, I'm attempting to make it more fun, Taking cloak away from beers map wouldn't be fun, because you are taking away a fast one hit that does "spread damage". That would actually make Shepherding last longer. I've explained what my intention is above, read it again.

also, shoops ideas looked insanely retarded. 100 gold reward for killing a stack farm? the ****? why are we using his ideas? is it because hes played since the dinosaur ages or because he has logic?
@Spoofy Where in the change log does it say that you are rewarded 100 gold for killing a stack farm? You aren't rewarded any Spoofy, there is no Farm bounty. We are using his idea because it's logical, it should change the game for the better, it's not because he's played since the dinosaur ages, in fact I've played longer, I was there and in the realm of every main Sheep Tag Map creator(MDTEAM/Starmire/Team-X/Arxon_Havenloft and to.ct)RbR/GosuSheep and then of course GosuSheep/Chakra, even drewisfat when he was getting his map off the ground.)

i really think its time for players to throw away "player-name ego" and past accomplishments. live in the now and prepare for the future.
That statement is a huge contradictory statement, you're not willing to even test this because it was originally Shoops idea. A person you don't necessarily respect or like due to past grievances. You then read what other people are posting because it isn't as long as my posts and just assume they have read the whole thing. How about instead of being a Sheep/brainwashed minion, why don't you read what I wrote and find out what I'm trying to say for YOURSELF!

#hawkyshashtags
#against 20 mins wolf rounds
#against the map
#vampire-like attitude
Morons these days.... Getting worse.

What to basically do on few steps :

1- take beer map
2- change cloaks
3- remove far sight
4- lower sentry sight radius
5- all fixen (keep gold sharing or mass long games)

kind regards.
baiten ur favorite and lovely SheepTag player
@Baiten, thank you for the attempt at constructive criticism. Read the above I do not intend for mass long games and they shouldn't happen. Once this is tested say in 10 different games, I will have a look at the average survival time, if it's not spread out Sheep aren't dieing at random times and both teams are trying then this is a problem. If they aren't lasting more than 5 mins most times it means I need to allow sheep to receive more gold per second, if they are lasting longer than say 10 minutes every time then it means I need to increase Shepherd gold. 

I'm not wanting to continue to develop Beers map, I'm wanting to develop and roll with a new idea that will change ST and how people play it. Just like Team-X, Arxon, Gosu and even BEER has done in the past. All had ideas that would revolutionise Sheep Tag, here is a new idea, try it out. Give me a chance to balance it. Then make your judgments.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 05:08:44 am by Alph4bet »

SharingMyHeroes

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Re: Map Development (Revisited)
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2013, 05:13:55 am »
Read all the change logs:
The only positive point I see is that we have a mapmaker back in community.
Beer used to make random changes and did never ask things to people and this is mainly the reason I don't like your map, I don't support it, you are doing the same thing.
We are a community, yet mapmaker chooses everything in the map and we shall play it and shaddap.
Missing part: explanations of the changes.

"Hitler map", whole community at the moment is run by idiots who are trying to exile others(Hitler csb kids?) Community is lucky they even have people who attempt to run a forum(Sidey), pay for host bots(CMK/Exalius/Whoever owns sor bot) and attempt map making(Chakra/me/gosu/beer)/setting up a competitive scene(Shoop/shya/cmk). 

- Hm? never said hitler map but yea.
- Exalius pays for bot? did not play in his bot since 2009. Never saw it on roc, its not a paid bot as far as i am concerned.
- Spoofy owns one bot too where we play massive games.
- You attempt map making? you are doing random changes that came from nowhere, you don't even explain why and we shall test it and shaddap, "ok".
- Competitive scene? hmm yea, Shoop? dodged a clan war I asked; cmk? I guess you mean me since I am the one that is asking for matches on forum and the one who organizated cw; Shya? made a clan full of backstabbs and friendships with spambotters

From what you say, I can tell you my dear Alphabet, you do NOT know what is going on in this community, you are saying BULLSHIT. You came back last month (I believe?) and think you are aware of everything.
But in one sentence, you showed that you are completly LOST. Try talking more with the community.

stop being an idiot who has the attention span of a 5 year old and READ the whole thing. Not only read, but understand it. Contribute properly by supporting the idea and suggesting a way we could balance it.

So to contribute I have to support your idea? I can't be against it?
Why is it someone that plays the game 1time per week that imposes ideas for the map instead of debating them with ppl that actually play it daily?
It's not cuz you make 500 words posts that you are more than anyone else, sit down 2 minutes and take a coffee.

Tollison

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Re: Map Development (Revisited)
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2013, 05:18:34 am »
Listen up

These were all changes made without asking the ST community about it, and the ST community should have equal say in what is implemented into the map.

Everybody, list what you'd like to see inside the map, and SheepGod and Chakra, debate against what you feel isn't right to put into it, but bring good arguments.

Bring Dolly back!!!  The BIG DOLLY!!! :D

Make an in game command that rotates the map to whatever degree the one in charge wishes.

Seek to make the terrain similar to that of sheep tag alternative.  It's a much better terrain than Revo ^^.

Just give full view of the map to wolves.  The wolves practically see the whole map anyways and it will eliminate any need for wards and invis farm. 

Change the middle fence area.

The redirection farm - if you right click it it will send you to another farm.  Only by using A and left clicking it can it be attacked.  make it 1 hit killed.

take away stack stomp and give the shep a short meat hook.

Sheep benefits for saving wisps.  Give sheeps extra speed, bigger line of sight, an extra farm, something!!!!!!!!!

Give benefits to shepherds for however many farms they kill.  Ex - 20 = faster shepherd, faster attack, etc.

Make sheep locator automatic.  every 5 seconds.  Give it to shepherds too.

When I say bring good arguments keep it short.  Paragraph after paragraph isn't needed.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 05:33:34 am by Tollison »

koala

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Re: Map Development (Revisited)
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2013, 06:40:20 am »
So let me break down the basic idea behind these proposed changes because it seems kids don't understand the rationale behind removing damage items, gold sharing and farm/sheep bounty. So right now we have gold sharing which is significant because wolfing is EXTREMELY team dependent, so you must pool one shepherd gold to buy damage items and get 1 hit or sheep are going to take full control of the map, make savings and it's going to be a long 20 mins. I mean working as team is still necessary to the point that you need to surround the sheep and limit their expansion while cutting into their mass.

What I think this map aims to and will do is make it more fun for shepherds leaving room for more individual play by way of low cost strength pot/beam and golems. Also making harder for sheep but still promoting more active play by removing savings as to make corner massing redundant. Sure sheep can hide in their cornermass but there isn't much benefit if they aren't expanding because you only get gold by staying alive not massing cash farms.

This makes wolfing also more about isolations and killing rather than HAVING to get pooled enough to buy damage to plow through to the corner and kill savings and eventually hamper the sheep economy enough, so they can't afford anything but 2 or 1 hit normal farms if you have enough damage. In this map the lower cost strength potion and beam acts as that 1 hit. You only have it when you need it and that is when a sheep is in close enough proximity to you or in kill range.

What to basically do on few steps :

1- take beer map
2- change cloaks
3- remove far sight
4- lower sentry sight radius
5- all fixen (keep gold sharing or mass long games)

kind regards.
baiten ur favorite and lovely SheepTag player
I'd also like to get the proposed changes for the map we play on right now from Clan CsB as they seem to have an idea of what will improve beers map that is in the current theme we have: damage items allowing for a CONSTANT 1 hit, gold sharing, farm/sheep bounty, etc. I still think these map changes are positive and is certainly and a step in the right direction. This idea deserves to be fleshed out and get properly tested before being discarded but I don't think it will. This map should really take off if we can balance it right.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 07:13:12 am by koala »

Alph4bet

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Re: Map Development (Revisited)
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2013, 06:44:50 am »
Read all the change logs:
The only positive point I see is that we have a mapmaker back in community.
Beer used to make random changes and did never ask things to people and this is mainly the reason I don't like your map, I don't support it, you are doing the same thing.
We are a community, yet mapmaker chooses everything in the map and we shall play it and shaddap.
Missing part: explanations of the changes.
@SharingMyHeroes, It's a game supported by the community, and developed by the map maker, I'm not adding something random, I am explaining it. I have spent the last however many posts explaining it. Once again you are not reading what I'm writing. I don't meant to be lengthy, I'm trying to explain in detail for you. The first post was lengthy as it was, to let you guys make sense of it. All you needed to do was ask for explanation of certain changes, after you asked(Which you didn't) or expressed your fears(Which you did), I answered. Unfortunately however many posts down and you still haven't read them.

- Hm? never said hitler map but yea.
- Exalius pays for bot? did not play in his bot since 2009. Never saw it on roc, its not a paid bot as far as i am concerned.
- Spoofy owns one bot too where we play massive games.
- You attempt map making? you are doing random changes that came from nowhere, you don't even explain why and we shall test it and shaddap, "ok".
- Competitive scene? hmm yea, Shoop? dodged a clan war I asked; cmk? I guess you mean me since I am the one that is asking for matches on forum and the one who organizated cw; Shya? made a clan full of backstabbs and friendships with spambotters
This is really off topic thing to concentrate on but I'll address it:
-I put a paragraph line between those two as you can clearly see, I was no longer just addressing you but the other people who posted in this topic(you obviously didn't see before Sidey deleted). They said that they agreed with you(blindly) and said it was a Hitler map. That wasn't me addressing you personally.
-Shoop didn't dodge, but you're right he didn't show, and like I said he was trying. The original purpose of SoR was to make a team of five to compete against CsB(It's now changed) Shoop and Shya had organised this team together(Doesn't matter about the end result, it matters about the intention).
-I thought it was cmk, sorry? give you credit for helping to start a competitive scene. Shya competed in that clan war and helped organize it did he not?
-Exalius had a bot in his channel for ages that helped the community(As i understand it no longer does but I was pointing out people who are trying to help and that they should be greatfull, for heaps aren't doing that much to help). Once again it wasn't directed at(alone at least, I didn't know you helped organise the cw at that stage).
-Sorry I missed out spoofys name I know he owns hiddensand does he not?
-I addressed your next point throughout this topic several times, and again at the top of this post.

From what you say, I can tell you my dear Alphabet, you do NOT know what is going on in this community, you are saying BULL****. You came back last month (I believe?) and think you are aware of everything.
But in one sentence, you showed that you are completly LOST. Try talking more with the community.
@SharingMyHeroes, Offtopic again but I'll address it.
Clearly I can see what is going on with the community, all of those things I listed are true, anyone with any observational abilities can see this. Those things are happening and it's disgusting.

So to contribute I have to support your idea? I can't be against it?
No you have to support me/chakra as map makers, not every idea we attempt to implement.
You have to read my idea and understand it. After that if you're against it sure, tell me why, maybe you misunderstand my idea, maybe you want an explanation of certain things to get your head around it? If so, ASK what it is you think I should explain.
What I mean by supporting me as a map maker, is to
a: Understand it if you're able to without any help, good otherwise, ask for an explanation and then READ IT!,
b: Don't judge the decision straight away of course I want it tested. How do you know it's bad?
c: If you do not like the change after it's been tested, along with a lot of other people, we shall venture down a new path.

Why is it someone that plays the game 1time per week that imposes ideas for the map instead of debating them with ppl that actually play it daily? 
It's not cuz you make 500 words posts that you are more than anyone else, sit down 2 minutes and take a coffee.
@SharingMyHeroes, I don't play it once a week, since I've been back I've been on every day on Europe during a timezone that is ridiculous for me(you guys play from 3:30am - 7:00am for me, yet I'm on and I have uni studies to do as well as work a few times a week to survive. I am also on during aussie hours so that I can attempt to recruit them too(going alright at the moment, was going very slow but has picked up). I am more active than you.
In terms of the long posts it's to explain to you in detail, so you don't write posts like your last one. you shouldn't have needed some of your words in the last post for example:
"We are a community, yet mapmaker chooses everything in the map and we shall play it and shaddap.
Missing part: explanations of the changes."
I did explain some changes throughout posts after fears were expressed, I will explain further if you like, just ask what changes be specific and I will explain why I want to test them.

Bring Dolly back!!!  The BIG DOLLY!!! :D
@Tollison, Please from now on with all map making suggestions post your suggestion in its own topic with the subject line reading Map making Suggestions [what they effect farms/sheep/wolves/sight etc]. I will answer this one, this once only discussions related to this changelog are to be done here. If you want a discussion about any of these changes tollison, make a different post.
All of the following responses will be @EVERYONE. Fun things like dolly will be subtedly added throughout the game and wont be specifically written on the changelog. Instead we will code name it "easter egg" which is common for things like that. It's to make small changes that don't effect game play that can be fun/funny and see how the community reacts once they find it. So when we have something like "easter egg" written on the change log go and explore!

Make an in game command that rotates the map to whatever degree the one in charge wishes.
Explain this further? You mean have the individual player rotate their map to whatever degree they like? If so this may be a feature added later.

Seek to make the terrain similar to that of sheep tag alternative.  It's a much better terrain than Revo ^^.
We will be trying out different terrains later, for now we are trying to do a balancing change. I don't want to change too much too fast. Best to get this balanced and then move on.

Just give full view of the map to wolves.  The wolves practically see the whole map anyways and it will eliminate any need for wards and invis farm. 
Wolves only see the whole map if they have used farsight(Which we will balance) or wards. We want to make the map sight a skill for both Sheeps and Shepherds. Hopefully in tournament games later on(After we have implemented a league), we will be adding a Sheep Tag Client where map hacking will be impossible. So sight will come into play a lot more then too.

Change the middle fence area.

When discussing map changes please be more elaborative, expand upon your idea, change it how? Do what to middle fence area?
The redirection farm - if you right click it it will send you to another farm.  Only by using A and left clicking it can it be attacked.  make it 1 hit killed.

take away stack stomp and give the shep a short meat hook.
I personally don't like this idea of combining dota with st. The stomp is easier to use, especially for pubs and it also would have a really bad effect on Run st. It would make it near impossible with 5 meet hooks coming at you should you get close enough to any shepherd.

Sheep benefits for saving wisps.  Give sheeps extra speed, bigger line of sight, an extra farm, something!!!!!!!!!
Sheep Already have a benefit I find sufficient for saving wisps, that is you get a team mate back to help you survive! If the masses would like other benefits, I am willing to take suggestions and I may implement it at a later stage when other things are balanced.

Give benefits to shepherds for however many farms they kill.  Ex - 20 = faster shepherd, faster attack, etc.
So at the moment in beers map there are benefits to killing farms(Gold bounties), I'm trying to take that away, I'm trying to make it so that Sheep are the objective, not farming massive amounts of items until sheep stand no chance. I want Shepherds to have individual play.

Make sheep locator automatic.  every 5 seconds.  Give it to shepherds too.
I could definitely do this for Sheep, at the moment I wont but that could be a change in the future. Shepherds will never get this, for the above reason of keeping sight a skill in the game.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 06:49:02 am by Alph4bet »

Tollison

  • Guest
Re: Map Development (Revisited)
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2013, 09:15:03 am »
Alpha, you can sum up what you mean in a few sentences.  You're boring me with your paragraphs.  You're just pulling some political bullshit to annoy me and I don't appreciate it.

 

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