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Elder Scrolls


Author Topic: Map Development section  (Read 246 times)

Alph4bet

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Re: Map Development section
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2013, 09:06:49 pm »
Hawkens is right here.

Some of you seem to be completely socially retarded in regards to how new players are brought into sheep tag.

The best way is OBVIOUSLY to host toilet-maps like ROTS, grr, and other crazy maps. I've said this since 2006 :S

Revo maps are horrible for new players.

No, lol, SwedishChef have you actually wasted any time in the teaching of new players? If so, you will find there are two types(I've worked with both):
1. The time wasters who get introduced to maps like ROTS and Tuff edition and then only want to play those versions because they are fun, they aren't interested in the skills of sheep tag, because in those maps, they don't matter much when you're netted for 5 seconds etc...
2. The non time wasters who want to learn because you have showed significant skills. Most of the people I have taught(There were heaps back in the day, I have no patience for it anymore) had seen me Run St, and was like WTF? HOW YOU NO DIE?(Drew hated this lol, cause he doesn't like Run st tbh). Unfortunately the downside with these people is that they don't like to wolf, so I had got it in there heads early to learn how, that wolfing can be fun, when you are showing them that wolfing can be fun, you need to show them all possible wolf skills and wolf with them many times to catch the sheep decently early.

Now having said this, we DO need a map that doesn't last forever, that has the majority of features that Revo has. Where tricks such as golem jumping is a skill that needs to be taught/mastered. Back in the day when I did that trick, people would be like WTF? HOW? Same with mirror jumping.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 09:09:51 pm by Alph4bet »

Tollison

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Re: Map Development section
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2013, 02:54:31 am »
Here is my idea for a good sheep tag map for pros and noobs.  I ask all who want to criticize my ideas to question them in a practical sense.  If I state an idea that you don't agree with then let's argue both of our theories and ask me questions on how to make it applicable.

No fog of war for any players.  Automatic sheep locators for both sheep and wolves.  Gold should be the only starting incentives of sheep and wolves considering how many players on each side.  No starting items.

The middle has no fence.  Spirits are contained.  Spirits are 2 hit.  Stacks are allowed in the middle.  To negate sheep from saving: iron golems, images, and cloaks.

The shepherds have mirror imaging as their only ability. 

The sheep have these farms: Farm, Upgraded farm, Strong farm, Tiny farm (also lets make each tiny farm give us a .04 % income rate increase), Wide farm, Hard farm (edited to be stronger than the farm we have now.), and the invisible farm. 

The map should be transformed to be aesthetically pleasing to all people.  Radiant colors to attract attention, unique characters etc.

Alph4bet

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Re: Map Development section
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2013, 06:02:04 am »
So Tollison before I go through each point you've made, I'd like to say this: Remember the map you propose has to keep skill and add simplicity to new players, as well as showing fancy **** off without making the map ridiculous(Like RoTs tuff etc...)
No fog of war for any players. 
I had already agreed with this in your last map suggestion thread. Back in the day when blizzard actually cared about war3 I would have said no, because map hack isn't as big as a problem, kids got constantly banned for that(I know, back in 2002 I used it, one of my cdkeys was banned from the game for 6 months lol).
Automatic sheep locators for both sheep and wolves. 
No, because that would be the equivalent as playing with -view on. It takes skill from the game that is needed. I know I said that people map hack etc... But you still shouldn't make it so that whatever the sheep/shepherd do is seen...

Gold should be the only starting incentives of sheep and wolves considering how many players on each side.  No starting items.
I agree with trialing this, could be interesting.

The middle has no fence.  Spirits are contained.  Spirits are 2 hit.  Stacks are allowed in the middle.  To negate sheep from saving: iron golems, images, and cloaks.
Without some sort of anti stack feature/Wisp regen this could be very bad. Wolves could get boring real fast.... You have a golem camping, they just stack which knocks the golem back and you save gg??

The shepherds have mirror imaging as their only ability. 
You're getting rid of wards to replace it with the sheep ping?

The sheep have these farms: Farm, Upgraded farm, Strong farm, Tiny farm (also lets make each tiny farm give us a .04 % income rate increase), Wide farm, Hard farm (edited to be stronger than the farm we have now.), and the invisible farm. 
Yeah, could do this. The frost farm isn't that op tbh. and if you get an item such as a necklace then frost farms aren't an issue, it's just about baiting those wolves into buying one in the first place.

The map should be transformed to be aesthetically pleasing to all people.  Radiant colors to attract attention, unique characters etc.
Hmmm.... Could, stuff like the dolly's were annoying when you're trying to mass and all of a sudden that **** flys over lol.
Also my experience with adding stuff like yoshi's etc... is that it lags the map a bit, I haven't been able to add it succesfully without adding some sort of delay on it.

SHEePYTaGGeRNeP

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Re: Map Development section
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2013, 09:10:51 am »
I'm pretty sure we need wards for the invis farm / invisbility farm?
Also what alph4bet said, golem mid and just stack seems to be a free save, unless golems have an inventory you can put a cloak of flames in.

But sheep colors per sheep ( like RotS ) is very nice for new players I think.

I think this can work Tolli.

FaceOfMelinda

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Re: Map Development section
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2013, 11:19:09 am »
Shaapgod I like you - you're my amigo - but damn you're insane :D

If you host revo or some variation of it you're not going to be catching any new players. The game-play is too complex and the learning curve too high.

If we instead host toilet-maps like ROTS we don't even need to put in the effort to recruit - the process is effectively automatized. Toilets host the maps themselves even. At least in the past - wc3 may be too dead at this point.

Tollison

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Re: Map Development section
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2013, 09:01:15 pm »
Automatic sheep locators for both sheep and wolves. 
Quote
No, because that would be the equivalent as playing with -view on. It takes skill from the game that is needed. I know I said that people map hack etc... But you still shouldn't make it so that whatever the sheep/shepherd do is seen...
The placement of wards and and the basic visibility of shepherds already gives them as much advantage as needed.  Fog of war is preposterous to have because shepherds technically see everything that is going on anyways and also it's a complication for newcomers, and it isn't practical for all sheeps to use.  This makes favoring one sheep over all of them and I want to see a game where all sheeps have an equal concern for all sheeps.  This allows for skill of massing, connecting between masses, harassing, correct cutting, correct surrounding of masses, etc rather than figuring out whos going to use saving farms and going invis if a sheep dies.  A locator for both sheep and wolves are there to help harness these abilities in noobs and improve them in pros. 

The middle has no fence.  Spirits are contained.  Spirits are 2 hit.  Stacks are allowed in the middle.  To negate sheep from saving: iron golems, images, and cloaks.
Quote
Without some sort of anti stack feature/Wisp regen this could be very bad. Wolves could get boring real fast.... You have a golem camping, they just stack which knocks the golem back and you save gg??
A wolf can control the golem to prevent stack saving.  2 hit wisps will give the shepherd a chance to prevent anyone from saving.

The shepherds have mirror imaging as their only ability. 
Quote
You're getting rid of wards to replace it with the sheep ping?
Not anymore.  I had not put into account that we will need wards to kill invis farms.

The map should be transformed to be aesthetically pleasing to all people.  Radiant colors to attract attention, unique characters etc.
Hmmm.... Could, stuff like the dolly's were annoying when you're trying to mass and all of a sudden that **** flys over lol.
Also my experience with adding stuff like yoshi's etc... is that it lags the map a bit, I haven't been able to add it succesfully without adding some sort of delay on it.
[/quote]
...sheep colors per sheep ( like RotS ) is very nice for new players I think.
The unique characters would include Dolly like things instead of different types of sheep and shepherds to use.  I feel that Dollys give sheep tag a distinction.  It's no longer just a game, but rather a community :D.  Something I just thought of:  A transparent shepherd running around :D.

Besides the fact that Sidey is sadistic enough to call people insane he is right.  the gameplay is too complex and the learning curve is too high.  If we make some very simple maps and add the flare that ROTS , GRR, etc have then we will see new players, but also there isn't anymore new players going to come to WC3, but think of it as making a blueprint to colonizing a new world, a WC4. 

Sheep Tag Revo is a rich map.  It's full of items, abilities, and different ways of playing.  Poor people, the ones with no experience, will not catch onto it too easily and may actually disregard it as not enjoyable.

I find this richness to be destructive to itself.  We could possibly add more wealth to it in different ways, but let's set the blueprint before we begin building.

AsAboveSoBelow

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Re: Map Development section
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2013, 06:32:30 am »
Change the name of the game from sheep tag to shepherd tag

Change -sc to -wf, wolf count


 

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