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Author Topic: Serious Map Discussion  (Read 444 times)

XXXandBEER

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Serious Map Discussion
« on: October 29, 2014, 02:03:21 am »
Hello guys! I haven't really been up to date with whats happening. I hear ST is making a comeback. So I figured I'd ask you guys what you want!
The last time I updated the map was May 8th version 7.7.4

Located Here:
http://www.epicwar.com/maps/242786/

I may have some spare time to release an edit or two. Depending on what you guys want.

Play it and let me know your thoughts on what should be Added/Removed/Changed

Lets try to get some serious discussions going!
That means no flaming, or trolling PLS

List any bugs found or ideas you have for the map. Lets have a serious map balancing thread for once!
SAY YOUR OPINION!
I can't emphasize this enough. If one person suggests something and NO ONE contests it I will probably do what they say (assuming it's not 100% absurd).
So please everyone give FEEDBACK!!!

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Nmcdo

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Re: Serious Map Discussion
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2014, 02:40:30 am »
First off, I wanna make this clear: currently I am in a bad position to think about the map as I have just started playing so I can only work off what I remember.
1. War drums either need to be made stronger or cost less as currently is a item that has 0 use EVER.
2. Do something with stomp, as it is; it just doesn't seem to work as well as you would want it to. For example sometimes you can be clearly in range of the sheep and stomp within that range and it doesn't work, what? Also I feel like the time it disables stack doesn't last long enough because the sheep usually has enough time to recover and do a Cmk-triple-stack-move or something else. Also lower mana a little as keeping a sheep disarmed I often find myself very drained of mana...
3. Add in a scoring system? (Do this only if you want to but make it properly.) <--- Only if you want to.
I will probably add more later but I can't really think of that much atm, but please take a moment to read my suggestions ^^.
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FaIIen-GoD

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Re: Serious Map Discussion
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2014, 09:27:22 pm »
I disagree with Nmcdo, im afraid if u increase the range of the stomp the sheep will never be able to avoid it either, i feel it works in a prober way doing isolations because i clearly feel it but it would suck to be in range of stomp each time you runtag and neither do i want the cool down by the effects of the stomp to last forever either becuz there is a difference when cmk put the stacks compared to others with his high skill level, so please dont :)=
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 09:29:46 pm by FaIIen-GoD »

HaWkys

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Re: Serious Map Discussion
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2014, 09:40:28 pm »
I think that money farm upgrades should be put in, not sure about the ratio tho.

Madhatters

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Re: Serious Map Discussion
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2014, 10:37:18 pm »
Some of this goes off of drew's post: http://sheeptag.createaforum.com/community-discussion/my-new-st-map-ideas/msg4473/#msg4473.

I think it would be interesting to have the map size expand as the game goes.

For example, at the start, the sheep would only be able to build in 1/4 of the map surround the start pen (AKA the intersection of 25-75% length and 25-75% height), then every ~3 minutes the map would expand, allowing sheep to build in another 1/4 of the map area.

The map would look something like this:
 

Each box represents the boundaries after another ~3 minutes.

Obviously the terrain/timing/size of boundaries might have to be played around with. I think it would work well if every expansion also reduced the number of hits for a shepherd to kill a farm, starting with 4 hits, i.e. after 3 minutes shepherds get 3 hit, after 6, 2 hit, after 9, 1 hit. This could be done automatically, or just base shepherd gold generation around these expectations. If it is automatic, shepherd gold generation would have to be reduced accordingly.


On an unrelated note, I would like to see some sort of sheep progression/expanded gold options. What I mean by this is that, throughout the game, shepherds get significantly better based on gold and have a relatively large amount of options for gold, where sheep remain relatively constant, and really only have a few things to spend gold on, and only one (stack farms, though you could argue frost as well, for saving) is useful for anything besides augmenting mass durability.

Could maybe do something like:
Sheep gain experience for being alive (reset to lvl 1 if they die), possibly increased by proximity to wolves. Every level a sheep gains increases gold generation by a small amount (~.1-.2 gold/sec per level), every other level gives sheep access to an ability that costs gold (used in a similar manner to portable shop).

Some abilities could be:
Sprint - increases run speed by 10% for 3 seconds.
Fortitude - increases health of nearby farms by 100 for 5 seconds.
Blind - causes nearby farms to block shepherd line of sight for 5 seconds or kills all nearby wards and reduces nearby shepherd vision drastically.


This probably isn't what you're looking for, as the changes would be pretty drastic, I just think they could be interesting.

XXXandBEER

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Re: Serious Map Discussion
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2014, 01:34:46 am »
Damn guys keep the ideas flowing!

@Mad Although I would love to try it out I do not think I will have time to implement/tweak that much. Also as you said thats a very drastic change and could be another game itself. Thanks for ideas though!

@Hawkys Awesome idea, but throw some numbers at me. And just strictly upgrades for more gold? What about upgrades for invisibility etc.

@Trollpro/NMCDO
I like where your guys heads are at these are more the changes I'm talking about. Balancing/tweaking. I do not think increasing stomp time would be fair as you can spam stomp over and over. Also there is mana pots/mana runes/mana regen items for more mana try to conserve it better! The stomp range is currently at 300? I believe? Not entirely sure. You may be right with the animation being off I'll take a look at it.

@Nmcdo
War drums are meant to give all wolves 2 hit for aura. It is still cheaper then having each individual wolf purchase a c16. More damage could help it a bit.
Scoring system? Need specifics this could mean anything

Discuss! Discuss! Discuss!
Keep gimme input.

Nmcdo

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Re: Serious Map Discussion
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2014, 03:01:16 am »
Heres an example of a scoring system that I imagine.
Wolf kill = 50 points
Assist(ing) wolves (Would have to be a range of closeness to the kill) = 25 points
As Sheep: Every 1 second a sheep would earn one point (NEAR MIDDLE) and Would get 0.5 Points for being in corners, this would discourage cornering in games.
As sheep: Being Last survivor = 25 points.
Tell me your thoughts yo
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XXXandBEER

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Re: Serious Map Discussion
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2014, 05:44:37 am »
Cool ideas, but you kinda flip flop

".5 points for being in corners to discourage cornering"
"last survivor 25 points"

Also what about the wolf that has to take mid? And Sheep that save allies. Need more infos!! Work out the details nmcdo I believe!

Nmcdo

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Re: Serious Map Discussion
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2014, 12:04:29 pm »
As for mid it could work like this; after the first sheep dies the wolf in middle gets 0.5 point a second for as long as it's there (wisp).
For saving make it 25 points. Also it was an example beer and right now I'm just adding to it, I don't see what you quoted as flip flop either lol.
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HaWkys

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Re: Serious Map Discussion
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2014, 08:08:30 pm »
After more thinking, I have come to the conclusion that having money upgrades is a MUST! In most cases the wolf always wins, i believe this will be balance the game. Here is a log of what I have come up with

1 Money farm( non upgraded) = 35 Gold right? From map making experience the timer is 1 gold for ever 2 -3 seconds (not sure exactly as i have only worked with ultimate map)
-This farm should have an upgrade (same price 35 gold so total = 70 gold) But it should change the interval to a gold every second.
2 This would dramatically reduce the number of money farms built so it would be easier to conceal around the map. The problem with sheep tag is more often than not sheep are out of gold and forced to use regular farms [less time to react / plan and less time to have a successful bridge]
3 As far as wolf gold, idk maybe 20 gold every money farm [more of an initiative to hide it well and remove before wolf gets to destroy it.]

-also while i am already posting about an idea here is another.

It would be interesting to have a 5-6 second blood lust that makes the sheep faster however, to make it more fair i think this ability should only be allowed when there is 1 sheep left. this ability should only be allowed to be used when we have a decent game up, 2v4 6v6 etc.

XXXandBEER

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Re: Serious Map Discussion
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2014, 10:12:26 pm »
@Hawkys
I believe it is 1 gold per 4 seconds. So the upgrade you suggested another 35 for 1 gold every 2. This would make hiding money farms easier and reduce the necessity to run to corners building a ton of them. And increasing bounty for money farm will definitely have to happen if this is implemented.
I do like this idea and would love to hear what others think about it.

I like the bloodlust idea, but it seems a lil iffy. It sounds like a fun idea, but also could be game changing. Would need others opinions.

@Nmcdo
Overall I don't see the need for a scoring system. We already have plenty of stat commands etc.

No other contributors? Sidey I thought you wanted an update gimme your thoughts!!!

Madhatters

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Re: Serious Map Discussion
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2014, 11:30:31 pm »
I think the saving farm upgrade should cost a bit more than the original, say 45 gold, to account for the benefits it provides over building two saving farms.

Could also be interesting to have a "convert to income" upgrade. It would cost ~25 gold and remove the farm from the game, but continue to provide the gold/sec. Dying would reset your income. Basically pay 25 gold to make your farm unable to be killed.

I like the bloodlust idea. Shouldn't have too big of an effect on any game larger than 2v4, even if the sheep was able to save all its allies.

HaWkys

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Re: Serious Map Discussion
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2014, 01:38:11 am »
I agree with mad and am pleased that ideas can be put to life. Lets make this happen :P

Nmcdo

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Re: Serious Map Discussion
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2014, 01:53:07 am »
@Beer's response, It puts everyone on the same field. As of right now there is no proper way of comparing Players and what they've done. One might look at wolf kills as their way of owning as wolf or leader as sheep - this would be the ultimate Combiner. You could even have it like this:
On scoreboard = Points listed.
Commands added
-Points Wolf
-Points Sheep
I personally would get excited to have points as an equalizer and interesting addition to the game.
Wouldn't it be cool to see if Dark_Exodus is 502 points while stay_cool has 600?
I think it would be AMAZING.
Look forward to your response.
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008

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Re: Serious Map Discussion
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2014, 05:10:20 am »
@Beer/Nmcdo:

You could use every stats we currently have and make a combination of those to make the scoring system.
For example, staying alive 100% of your round = 50 points ( if not, use a ratio ), each kill gives 5 points, every save gives 10 points, etc.
You could eventually discuss which stat should give the more points. It wouldn't be perfect but at least it wouldn't take too much time to implement it.

 

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