+-

Elder Scrolls


Author Topic: Cele's Everything About Dota Thread.  (Read 473 times)

Celestial_One

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 217
    • View Profile
Cele's Everything About Dota Thread.
« on: November 30, 2013, 01:59:56 am »
Being one of the best dota players in the community I'm offering free advice on anything! Yee ^^ it's time for a thread like this since a large population of sheeptaggers also play dota on a daily basis.

Also, this thread is used for talking about pro team games... tomorrow is LGD.cn vs iG and na'vi vs alliance.

I'm placing 4 rares on LGD.cn on dota2lounge.com to win the series... potentially win 4 rares. Kind of a risky bet, but china has been playing so solid since the patch... mainly drafting.

Also, na'vi vs alliance! 2 MONSTER TEAMS of dota, perhaps only bested currently by DK!??! I'm not going to bet any rares on this match as it could easily go either way and both teams are huge inconsistent atm. Na'vi went 0-3 in their matchs today, but alliance also playing pretty miserably lately. Keep your rares on this one, and just enjoy the show ^^

PS: Also feel free to post replays and such! I know I'm not THE BEST player, but I'm pretty good at looking at games objectively to settle arguments and ****. Post up!

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter


Chiefhero[sks]

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 165
    • View Profile
Re: Cele's Everything About Dota Thread.
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2013, 04:41:40 am »
i got a few questions

1) when and why should i go for midas on invoker?

2) why is visage such a popular support?

3) is SF a good solo mid (why/why not)?

4) what's the best way to deal with broodmother?

5) emberspirit and earthspirit => how should i skill their spells, and what items should i go for?

give me the cookie cutter builds etc, we know everything is situational. try to make general answers if you can. thanks in advance for reply!
"Sometimes Amir takes a deep breath and closes his eyes when he dota. That is when **** is getting real. He no longer plays dota, he feels dota, he IS dota." - Enstek


Celestial_One

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 217
    • View Profile
Re: Cele's Everything About Dota Thread.
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2013, 10:23:20 am »
*Breathes deeply* Long post incoming

1. I go midas on invoker when... I get firstblood, my other lanes are secure and strong enough that I don't have to leave my farm for a while (basically if lanes have stuns and slows then you don't need to leave mid cus of sunstrike). Midas is sick on invoker because that attack speed makes you a viable physical hardcarry, gives you extra levels (which are oh-so important), and pays itself off in 10 uses or about 15 minutes, if you don't include selling it for half-price. I don't go midas when my allies are losing like hell or I feel that I'll need to leave my lane to gank early on. If I don't go midas I generally go force, drums, or cyclone. Obviously this is assuming you are solo middle.

2. There's a lot of reasons why Visage is such a popular support (and typically is put in a trilane and against trilanes):
a. He is powerful at any point in the game unlike a lot of heroes that require farm, though he falls off a bit in the lategame.
b. He's very survivable using his first ability for near max movespeed, and his 3rd ability giving him physical and magical dmg reduction.
c. He has the highest dmg semi-reliable nuke at level 1 (215 dmg with max charges). I say it's semi-reliable because you can't initiate with it as you need allies and enemies to take damage first. Obviously sunstrike or maybe mystic snake can do more dmg at level one, but visage's nuke is pretty easy to get off.
d. He is useful even if he dies due to his familiars being able to survive even after he dies. Not only this but they're free vision, have stuns, and deal quite nice burst physical dmg (not many supports have burst physical).

When I was a nub I'd play visage as a carry *Facepalm*. It's so easy for lesser experienced players to play him as a carry because of the attack speed bonus from his first ability, and he can easily rack up a ton of kills early on with his huge burst dmg, but he's most effective as a support, as his abilities don't require items to work well.

3. SF is a decent solo mid, but he requires so much babysitting and careful maneuvering by allies that it's often very risky and most teams have stopped picking up SF.
Why?
a. He's paper. If someone picks SF they have a huge target on their forehead because he has no escape, insanely low hp, and requires a standard amount of farm in order to be effective (he needs bkb, pretty much).
b. If you give firstblood it can feel like the game is already over. SF loses so much from dying early on, because he NEEDS those souls in order snowball and be effective in the midgame, which is his time to shine. Unlike say, nature's prophet (furion) or a few other heroes who can die early on and still have ways to catch up.

He can be played as safelane carry or middle. You will never see him as a offlane in a pro game. He's most popular as a solo mid, though. If he manages to tough it out those early levels and get souls then he can deny EVERYTHING to the other person, which is why he's so strong mid (he's like OD in the sense that he doesn't really need to kill early on (unlike nightstalker who heavily relies on early kills), but rather focus all out on creepscore. Not only that but he has one of the highest burst damage outputs in the game at level 7, if you don't include ultimates, making levels and creepscore on him insanely important. Sf is a risky mid because he can lose easily if the other team has rune control, heavy burst, or high amounts of base dmg at the start. Sf doesn't do well against heroes like zeus, pudge, ta, nightstalker, qop etc. In fact he usually gets raped by those heroes. He is not a safe pick in drafting because of how easily he is countered. If sf is being picked up it's usually later in the draft or after the other team has established their mid hero. However, big risk big gain... an SF who dominates mid can snowball out of control really easily with his insane burst/flash farming capabilities, and very high physical damage with souls and -armor aura.

4. Broodmother can be dealt with a number of ways. Chainstun does the trick... but it's usually nice to have someone that can kill trees or jump onto them otherwise she'll troll you all game. A few heroes come to mind: Bounty hunter: he does lots of burst early on, and track is amazing against her. Slardar- aoe stun, mass movespeed allowing him to get it off, and of course his ultimate gives vision of her. Beastmaster: Axes kill trees, can use bird to see in trees, nasty long stun with ult allows for easy chaining against her (also she is a very common bkb holder, so bm is rly nice). Naga siren- net is so good against her since if you get it off before she goes invis she is revealed and can't escape to the trees, and her rip tide is great for brood's pushing abilities. Axe- Pretty self-explanatory blink on mass summons and brood = tons of spins and a quick death. But, really... killing brood is just about coordinating.. there is no big secret to beating new brood. Try ganking her early when she's vulnerable, don't give her free towers, and most importantly, get sentries and dust against her. Don't be cheap, lol. Making sure she loses her lane can pretty much devastate her. She only really becomes a problem when she's taking free towers, winning the lane, or there is no aoe to stop her spider push.

5. I don't play earth spirit to be honest so I wouldn't even know where to start with him. Mana boots, meka is the most common build I see on earth spirit as far as his skill build I have no idea. Ember spirit can be played a lot of different ways, but he usually either goes mid ganker or hard carry. Also depending what role he is filling it drastically effects his skill build. This isn't the end-all-be-all build but here's what I generally go for hard carry sidelane:

If I'm against heavy magic (kotl, lina etc):
lvl 1- chain (disable for firstblood potential)- you're going to want to keep this at lvl 1 since your dps doesn't come from disables, but your other abilities. One level in this is vital, though.
lvl 2- flameguard (blocks magic and deals 240 dmg over time... lots of dmg for 1 lvl ability, also helps survivability a tidbit)
lvl 3- flameguard (quadruples the magic block (200), and increases the dmg over time... leveling up this ability allows for you to farm jungle really fast and you can kill stacked camps at an early level if you're being harassed out of the lane)
lvl 4- fist (nice aoe dmg ability, also you can use this to jump and chain them in place if you time properly (it's not hard to do) and it's a tactic you can't overlook, especially since getting in melee range can be hard sometimes)
lvl 5- flameguard (more magic block, more dmg over time allowing you to focus on just chasing instead of timing hits on them) - that's the last level I get in flameguard for a while because it doesn't scale well at the last level.
lvl 6- ulti, duh
lvl 7- fist
lvl 8- fist
lvl 9- fist: It scales really well, but I value the survivability and dmg over time over fist typically because fist doesn't help you farm much, and it doesn't scale well early on. You could level up fist first if you were against a trilane and that would deal a ton of dps, but again you're either getting survivability or a slight increase in damage since the cooldown on this ability only scales really well from 3->4.
lvl 10-chain (grab this at lvl 12 and 13 for 3 second disable and great scaling of cooldown)
lvl 11- ulti, duh
lvl 12-13- chain
lvl 14- flameguard (better than stats...)

items: Starting items vary... if you think you're against more than one ranged then it's necessary to get a stout shield (build into pms), salve, tango, clarity, branch (or another clarity... doesn't rly make much difference). Otherwise swap out the stout for a quelling if you don't think you'll be harassed very much. (your base dmg is like 47 I think at the start... it's not good so getting quelling can be a great option) into phase/mana boots or midas* (if you get fb or are having really sick farm then midas is a great choice since it basically prevents you from falling behind in exp and gold). I build bfury on this hero almost every game now, though it's completely reasonable to go maelstrom a lot of the time as well, but it doesn't scale as well as bfury does later on. I build ember like a glass cannon everygame, unless I'm supporting. Bfury, crit, mkb.

As a second support I might opt to level up my chain, go mana boots into drums, maybe even meka. He's not really good as a ward **** because he CAN scale into the midgame and lategame pretty well, and he requires at least a decent amount of farm to be of much use.

Honestly there are so many different ways to build this hero, and a lot of it depends on who you're laning against and what heroes are on the other team. As a solo mid I might opt for leveling up fist so I can spam and have nice lane control or fist is also good against a trilane, but if I'm against a melee hero I might go for flameguard even if they don't have lots of nuke just to push the lane, and keep them off the wave. Getting bottle or mana boots is pretty standard, though phase is completely fine as well (more damage and mobility). If you have multiple allies who are going mana boots then it might be better to get phase boots but gank-role or support puts a TON of pressure on your mana pool, because you're not staying in lane and creepscoring, but using mass abilities to rack up that kill count.

I love midas on pretty much every carry nowadays, even if it's late (12 mins? why de **** not?). And even as a mid hero. It's such a sick item. If your team is relying on you to carry the game super early on and not giving you time to farm then they're not treating their carry very well, and are probably getting outplayed anyways. If you can manage to get it before 7 minutes then I'd say go for it 9 times out of 10. Though I'll admit there are times when going midas isn't that strong such as when you're the only support, not going to get it at a decent time (before about 15 minutes), or require certain other items to function (such as axe going vanguard or pipe, sf going middle needs bkb or shadow blade asap). If you notice many on the other team going midas, and you don't predict an early win or nasty pushing for a while then why not go midas? Though, even on a support it can be amazing since it allows you to keep up in levels and if the game drags then you have free attack speed, and bonus gold allowing you to get M04r items. If you are managing to buy out the wards, contribute well to your team's killcount, have finished boots (tranquil, mana boots), have lots of hero-kill gold, and given you aren't losing miserably (ie you aren't being forced to buy meka or drums early on) then why not go for it? I look at it as you're basically buying levels. DK recently has been putting midas on pretty much everyone. Even carries who are seriously behind to get back on track (sometimes you'll hear someone refer to it as a catch-up midas if it's on the hard carry past 10 minutes).

Man... that was a long post. NEXT!



« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 02:10:11 am by Celestial_One »

HaWkys

  • Masser Deluxe
  • *******
  • Posts: 740
  • NMCDO = biggest clown
    • View Profile
Re: Cele's Everything About Dota Thread.
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2013, 05:52:53 pm »
What orb effects can be stacked in Dota and Dota 2


Celestial_One

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 217
    • View Profile
Re: Cele's Everything About Dota Thread.
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2013, 06:01:16 pm »
I could type a longwinded response like my last post, but just refer to this page:
http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Unique_Attack_Modifier

Exa

  • Backbuilder
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
    • View Profile
Re: Cele's Everything About Dota Thread.
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2013, 11:44:07 pm »
1: What happens if Rubick and Void makes overlapping chronosphere's? Noone can walk in it? Similarly what would happen if Rubick and Barathrum used netherstrike on eachother at the exact same time? Is there any weird/unexpected interactions when Rubick and hero X uses the same spell on eachother at the very same time?

2: Do you think Lich in the current patch is worthy of first pick/ban?

3: Why has beastmaster fallen off completely in the competetive scene? Despite being a hero that potentially could go every lane and has epic tools to gank, scout, initiate and push?

4: If I don't want to play Kunkka or Razor how would I deal with destroyer mid? Assuming I couldn't get my mongos of a teammates to gank.

5: What's your take on the omniknight agha upgrade? What's the most overrated/underrated agha upgrades in the game?

mod-note: oops... accidentally hit modify instead of reply-cele
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 01:47:54 am by Celestial_One »

Celestial_One

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 217
    • View Profile
Re: Cele's Everything About Dota Thread.
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2013, 01:47:01 am »
Lot's of questions.

1: Void can walk through any chronosphere, even if it's not his. He de time master yo. Rubick can only walk through his own. If rubick walks into void's even if it's partially his (the overlapping section) then he will get stunned. A really weird bara + rubick scenario... correct me if I'm wrong, but I think rubick gets increased cast-rate on all the spells he steals so his would hit bara before bara's would work. I know of one funny interaction. If rubick steals charge, and bara charges away, and rubick charges after him within 600 range, then rubick can attack bara when they're both charging to the other side of the map, lol.

2: Lich isn't first pick or first ban worthy. There's a ton of better options. His ult got buffed, yeah, but you'll rarely see it bounce past what its buff was. His ultimate can deal nice dps under the correct circumstances, but it's not reliable by any means. Most chainfrosts I see bounce once or twice and then end there. The extra potential bounces mean nothing the vast majority of the time. He's not "tier 1 pick/ban". Tier 1 is like... naix, od, chen, visage, naga, wisp, weaver, bat, dark seer, furion, and probably clockwerk now too. Maybe lich is tier 2, buthe's pretty situational. Lich is great against a bunch of melees, but against ranged not so much... frost armor doesn't do that much, and ranged units are typically already spread out. That's not to say you couldn't pick up lich first as a support, but I wouldn't waste a ban on him.

3: For starters beastmaster requires level 2 summons before he can even get his slow. That basically means he needs level 4 before he has any real gank/killing power assuming you're leveling axes first. So that already means he can't really support/roam well. He needs levels early on, but isn't that strong of a laner (sure he has axes, but after he throws axes he just gets harassed out of lane by any ranged hero). He has no intense increase in physical dps. His aura is great for pushing, but it doesn't really help you carry. Also, his stun doesn't get much stronger even with more levels... slight increase in damage and a little bit longer stun.
a. he doesn't deal much physical dps compared to other options
b. he has no disables earlygame making him pretty much useless until level 6
c. he has somewhat reliable aoe
d. he has no escape
e. no real lane control aside from axes, which are pretty easy to dodge
beastmaster is really only picked up as a situational pick... maybe against enigma or a team of blinkers where you need his long stun, but I think clockwerk fulfills pretty much all the roles that beastmaster used to, but does it better lol. I like to compare beastmaster's ult to CK's stun. Kind of makes his ult seem REALLY weak imo.

4: Destroyer mid is annoying as hell, and he's incredibly hard to deal with, which is why a lot of teams ban him out in the last phase when most mid heroes are picked up. If they banned out some of OD's harder counters, like the ones you mentioned, then it's probably worth getting whatever aoe nuker is in the pool and bottle crowing. It's not the best method, and OD will still probably get more cs than you and have his fair share of denies, but at least that way he won't keep you out of lane and you'll still manage to get away with a decent amount of farm. Some examples of those heroes: If there's a Nyx left then you could pick him up. Nyx even has some decent potential to get a kill. Nevermore does well assuming he doesn't die early on, and can get level 3 and amass souls. Puck can do okay, though typically I stray from int heroes against OD because it'll be that much harder to get creepscore. A riskier pick would be, like, drow ranger. You'll only be a little behind in damage earlygame, and once you hit 6 you could probably kill. I've even seen vengeful spirit successfully solo mid against OD. Timbersaw getting 2 into his passive, and 1 into whirling for cs works well. Dragon Knight... etc. However, all of them need to bottle crow. Hope this answers your question.

5: Agha on omni is cool, but he typically should go other vital items before this (meka? mana boots? drums? pipe?). I suppose the problem really is that if omni has that much farm, then he probably wasn't being a very good support, and he was talking all the kills. Carry omni has been sent to the trash a long time ago. As far as a support omni is kind of mediocre... most teams opt for chen over omni, because his heal is global, he has legitimate very early push, and he can have multiple disables all without having a single item.

I don't know if I could pick any for the most overrated and most underrated... I think that there are a lot of aghs that are complete trash such as: abby's, dazzle's, enigma's, windrunner's, sand king's... idk there are a lot of bad scepters lol.

Probably the best ones in no particular order are: Pudge's, Invoker's, Warlock's, Meepo's, AA's, QoP's, Tiny's, and Clockwerk's. Idk, I think all those scepters are pretty much core because of how insane the improvements are.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 12:28:13 am by Celestial_One »

Chiefhero[sks]

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 165
    • View Profile
Re: Cele's Everything About Dota Thread.
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2013, 03:48:36 am »
Quote
2: Lich isn't first pick or first ban worthy. There's a ton of better options. His ult got buffed, yeah, but you'll rarely see it bounce past what its buff was. His ultimate can deal nice dps under the correct circumstances, but it's not reliable by any means. Most chainfrosts I see bounce once or twice and then end there. The extra potential bounces mean nothing the vast majority of the time. He's not "tier 1 pick/ban". Tier 1 is like... naix, od, chen, visage, naga, wisp, weaver, bat, dark seer, furion, and probably clockwerk now too. Maybe lich is tier 2, buthe's pretty situational. Lich is great against a bunch of melees, but against ranged not so much... frost armor doesn't do that much, and ranged units are typically already spread out. That's not to say you couldn't pick up lich first as a support, but I wouldn't waste a ban on him.
i think the debate about the lich is more focused about the massive buff to his third spell (kill a unit for mana), as it now gives you levels for killing your own creeps. which means that you can put lich on the offlane to deny gold/levels from the enemie's carry, as well as level himself up in the process.

offlaners are usually semi-carries of some sort (aim to get some items, usually utility like meka/force etc), and include spells which allow them to level up (invis heroes/escape mechanism). most offlaners can't deny farm from the enemy carry though, whereas lich does this very well (denying full-hp creeps every wave also means that the creep equilibrium will be closer to his tower all the time unless enemies pull the jungle).

His frost-armor also works against ranged now btw. and his ulti deals up to ~5000 damage if all bounces hit (before reductions). NASTY ^^ give a new answer on this question if you changed your mind in light of the new info. i got additional questions though:

1) how should i draft heroes in CM mode? assuming i don't know anything about drafting, what would you tell me to improve my drafting?

2) how to win a game where the enemy clearly has stronger lategame potential, but also has strong anti-push (kotl or whatever)?

Eager to hear de reply!
"Sometimes Amir takes a deep breath and closes his eyes when he dota. That is when **** is getting real. He no longer plays dota, he feels dota, he IS dota." - Enstek


Celestial_One

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 217
    • View Profile
Re: Cele's Everything About Dota Thread.
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2013, 06:25:46 am »
Yee I knew about the buff to sacrifice, but I don't think it's game-changing you're only getting 1 extra creep's worth of exp every 44 seconds at level 1 (so 2 creeps every 3 waves, not every wave). I'm not really sure what you're suggesting... if lich solos offlane does he level up sacrifice for that lower cooldown? On a side-note, as you said before, lich has no natural escape and so he can't exactly safely stay right up on the creep line if he's soloing the offlane. So in a sense sacrifice is just a compensation for what many heroes are already capable of doing in a different way such as weaver and sukuchi & germinate attack, windrunner with arrow and windrun, clockwerk with rocket and cogs. So what I mean to say is lich's ability to deny a creep is definitely good, but that's not the only way to have a successful offlane. And.. what planet are you living on where offlanes can't deny carry farm? Most offlane heroes are specifically suited for that one way or another. And the amount of damage that bounces can potentially do doesn't change my opinion. Did you know if an entire team was standing in the middle of cm's ult at lvl 16 for the full duration they'd take over 5k damage as well? Lich is a solid support for sure but as I said before he's situational. I didn't realize that frost armor effects ranged now (half as much as melee)... that's pretty nice buff as well, but as I said before if they don't have melee then that ability isn't that effective 15% movespeed and 10% attack speed slow isn't really all that good. Heck, just having drums would solve that issue, and it's already pretty standard that a team have one. The way I see it is lich is still the same hero as before, albeit a bit better. Essentially, he denies 2 creeps every 3 waves and later on he uses nova, throws chainfrost and hopes for the best. I'm still not convinced lich is tier 1 pick, and I'm just stating what I've observed from the last couple weeks of watching pr0 games (MLG, dreamhack etc). By saying he's 1st ban/pick-worthy you're basically saying he's currently one of the, if not the most overpowered hero and I don't really believe that. I'd still put my money on that even after the nerfs batrider is still the most op hero in professional play.

The first banning phase is pretty basic... just ban heroes you don't want to play against, or heroes you know that the other team is likely to pick, or heroes you know that will really hurt your strategy. Also the most important part of drafting is picking heroes you and your allies are comfortable playing. It'd be great if everyone could play every hero perfectly, but unfortunately that's not the case. Stick to what you know your friend's/ally's are good at and don't put them in a role they aren't used to playing. Beyond that drafting is pretty intuitive, and there is no set order in which to draft what heroes and what order... try to be unpredictable such as picking a hero that can successfully lane anywhere (or jungle!) and even play more than one role (ie windrunner, mirana, veno, prophet, wisp, lone druid, bat etc). It goes without saying that there are clearly heroes that are more powerful than others. Recognizing who these heroes are is a huge part of drafting and just straight up experience. Try to avoid early-picking one of your core heroes that can easily be countered. Try to read what your opponent is doing by seeing what they're banning. For example, if the enemy banned razor it should be a headsup that they're probably going to pick OD or naix and you should adjust your strategy accordingly. The best way to get better at drafting is to play CM, become captain and learn from your mistakes. You can also definitely learn a lot from watching pro-games and the drafting as well. I don't know why some people completely skip over drafting and go right to the early game... it's one of the most interesting parts of the game. Sorry I didn't really give a very in-depth answer... drafting is almost like playing chess, and you asked me how to be a good chess player, lol.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 07:19:21 am by Celestial_One »

Alph4bet

  • Backbuilder
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
    • View Profile
Re: Cele's Everything About Dota Thread.
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2013, 05:07:12 pm »
I am no longer that interested in DotA 2, when I was, Adam and I both played at a reasonably high level. Just before dota2 came out I was playing DotA 1 and was reasonably successful. Anywayz, when I used to draft(Not sure how it is now, haven't drafted in AGES!)
Lich was a huge solo offlaner for ages, all the pros did it, You deny the range creep second it comes out, and the lane will be pushed, they can't stop it, you ward for a tri lane, if it's there then you don't go up, you wait until the lane is pushed to the river(They can't help it, the lane will push to the river within the first 1 minute and 30 seconds in the game. If they pull and deward you, then obviously you're not gonna have an "Awesome" lane, but you wont die. Tri lanning is useless unless you're getting kills, because you're sacrificing levels. Lich can solo almost any hero, so if the other two leave, the other kid in their safelane isn't going to get that much farm. I used to play that lane a lot(I was our offlaner). I would rarely die in that lane, at level 6 you carry a tp and the second anyone dives our safelane or mid, you're there with your ulti.

I was hugely interested in the competitive scene, my favorite team back in the day was Ehome, they were the power house, then they lost the first international vs NaVi' and pretty much lost every major tournament after that(Poor EHome), LGD was a close second favorite until IG came and bought their whole team (LOL!). Since then I've been a Na'vi fan boy. It's too bad that they lost the second and third international, were sooo close the third one, but one bad decision threw them the title(No idea why they continued to do Roshan, and then all push mid while the other two lanes are pushing, hugely bad!)

Anywayz, if you do play Dota2 and are just starting up, I'd stick to what the usual play style is, otherwise if you're wanting to branch out and be better, don't let these faggots hold you back. There is more than one way to play a hero in almost all circumstances, you don't have to stick to the general lanes, how do you think the standard stuff gets popular in the first place? It's because pro teams find their niche and exploit it. Then the other teams start using their ideas etc... Look at NaVi, easily the weirdest team to watch in the world, because Puppy strategises hugely. Anywayz, I've said my two cents. If you're going to play, I'd recommend building a team with people you trust, get a long with and who are as dedicated as you. Otherwise it will fail.

I wish Adam didn't totally quit dota, and my mate chris played more, and pezz came back(stopped playing sc2, he's grand master on the NA server, one of the best in aus at sc2), then I'd have a decent line up for a dota team. It's not going to happen any time soon, and therefore I'll try and set my sights for other things(SHAAP TEG!!!!).

XXXandBEER

  • Runtag Supremo
  • *****
  • Posts: 324
    • View Profile
Re: Cele's Everything About Dota Thread.
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2013, 08:30:49 pm »
Why is Dota less popular then league even tho Dota has a better client, game engine, and game mechanics?

Why doesn't Dota rank players?

Valve > Riot

I_think_I_own

  • Baby Runtagger
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Cele's Everything About Dota Thread.
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2013, 08:56:18 pm »

1) how should i draft heroes in CM mode? assuming i don't know anything about drafting, what would you tell me to improve my drafting?
I'm not really an expert at drafting but i can give my 2 cents on it from watching how pro teams draft and my experience from playing leagues. First off, if it is a low skilled game, it is best to pick heroes that your team is most comfortable playing with (it is most likely that they won't be able to play heroes that are in the meta game because they probably suck) then i'd just pick a solo mid for myself and just carry the game alone. If it is very high skilled game, then you should pick heroes that sync well together in the late game, are viable early game and heroes that can DO ****. Examples of this would be magnus/gyro, magnus/lich, tide/lich (aoe wins games from my experience). Also i think junglers suck ass now except like ehcnatress/chen/enigma/cm. Drafting furion to jungle would be considered bad because an aggro tri lane would just counter it. Pick a defensive tri lane if you want your carry to free farm. PIck an offensive tri lane if you want to prevent your opponent's carry's farm or just simply **** and kill ****. Remember when you tri lane you're losing experience so your supports better be doing **** (zoning out, getting kills, pulling, etc) Otherwise the tri lane is lost and is ineffective. That's pretty much all i can say i guess, lol

I got a question for you cele: Why do pros go midas on support heroes? Why hasn't this been done before and why was it recently implemented in the meta game?

Celestial_One

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 217
    • View Profile
Re: Cele's Everything About Dota Thread.
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2013, 10:51:15 pm »
I don't know 100% why it hasn't been done as much in the past, because it seemed viable back then too, but it might have to do with the massive nerf to the easy lane pulls and thus the huge decrease in experience given to defensive trilanes and even just dual lane supports who pull. Not only this, but the gold given over time was drastically increased allowing supports to still manage to get it 15+ minutes in the game while buying wards, finishing boots, and getting relatively no farm.

 Midas can be good on a few supports for several reasons:
1. It allows you to get decent income without taking laning gold from your carry.
2. It gives you mass experience so that you don't fall behind especially if you were roaming a lot during the laning phase.
3. It's generally picked up only on support heroes that don't have an essential core item or heroes that can farm it without taking gold from carry (such as crystal maiden b.c she can jungle when lanes don't need her)
4. If enemy carries are going midas, you can expect the game to get drawn out, and it makes a lot of sense to get it on supports if you don't have early push to answer a drawn out game.

When not to midas:
1. When your team has good pushing potential, and their team has no response to early game pushing, because they went ricing build (Fnatic vs na'vi game 2 of dreamhack is a great example of this.. fnatic went 3 midas and were doing well with teamfights and trades, but the na'vi got meka and pushing items and they had no way to respond).

Maths: If you get it at 16 minutes, and the game lasts for ~32 more minutes then you got a free 1900 gold, ~25 extra creep's, and they can all be big creeps, worth of experience (that's INSANE!), and 30% additional attack speed the entire game.

Edit: To answer beer's question... League of Legends was marketed way better than the other options (HoN), and came out way sooner than dota 2.

PS: Also when I suggested prophet as an early pick I obviously meant him as a solo offlane who can go jungle if he can't stay in lane.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 12:20:11 am by Celestial_One »

HaWkys

  • Masser Deluxe
  • *******
  • Posts: 740
  • NMCDO = biggest clown
    • View Profile
Re: Cele's Everything About Dota Thread.
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2013, 12:01:07 am »
Best starting hero's?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 12:09:37 am by Celestial_One »

Celestial_One

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 217
    • View Profile
Re: Cele's Everything About Dota Thread.
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2013, 12:10:05 am »
I assume you mean heroes to start learning the game with? Try learning how to support with crystal maiden, lich, and vengeful spirit. They'll give you a good understanding of how a game is progressing while also teaching you lane control, warding, roaming/ganking, and how to pull creeps. Once you have a grasp on those heroes you could try easy carry heroes like viper, drow, mortred etc. I wouldn't suggest middle until you have a good grasp on what most heroes do, what items do what, and how to setup lanes.

edit: I did it again... ffs.

Also I have a question for you guys, do you think that winrate reflects skill, or can winrate be increased by taking advantage of the system somehow? A solo queue player with 52% win can be just as good as someone with 65% win who generally only plays 5 mans or party, yes or no?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 12:13:22 am by Celestial_One »

 

Recent Posts

Re: Alive? by GothaWOLF
September 27, 2019, 08:23:15 am

Re: Alive? by Nmcdo
September 26, 2019, 06:20:18 pm

Alive? by GothaWOLF
September 26, 2019, 07:40:50 am

SUP GUYYYYSSSSSSSSS by Sheepdice
September 20, 2018, 02:56:42 am

Re: New Meat on SC2 by Wyvernrider
July 17, 2018, 07:07:48 pm

Re: CD Keys RoC or Frozen Throne? by Wyvernrider
July 17, 2018, 07:06:16 pm

Re: New Meat on SC2 by Nmcdo
July 05, 2018, 04:27:04 pm

Re: New Meat on SC2 by Riziy
July 02, 2018, 08:10:24 pm


Shoutbox

View Shout History