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Author Topic: Sexuality  (Read 800 times)

Chakra

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Re: Sexuality
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2013, 12:39:48 am »
Are you saying that if we never discuss orientation in public, people won't be discriminated for it? That's a noble goal, and I don't want to argue the merits of the system, but it has one fatal flaw:

Do you deny that people will simply assume orientation if it isn't told?

You yourself said:
Quote
Body language exists and can be read but it takes experience to see it. 

I personally know when someone is attracted to me.  I just feel it.  I'm able to read how people feel directly because I'm able to read body language indirectly.

Is this not just assuming/guessing orientation? Do you think it is better for people to assume/guess orientation than to know?

Not talking about it is as turd as the "don't say gay," laws. Just as we should openly talk about racism, religion, etc, we should definitely talk about orientation.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 12:41:32 am by Chakra »

Tollison

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Re: Sexuality
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2013, 12:50:14 am »
I don't deny that people will assume for they don't understand how to read people.

It isn't guessing to read body and tone language.  People move and position themselves according to the situation.  People also use certain tones to express how they feel at the moment.

Those that assume will be declined and learn how to become more efficient in acquiring a mate.




Chakra

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Re: Sexuality
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2013, 01:34:36 am »
It doesn't matter. You aren't answering the question.
Quote
So what's the reason for not being explicit about our orientation?
You said:
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To keep orientation unbiased.
But then you said:
Quote
Body language exists and can be read but it takes experience to see it. 

I personally know when someone is attracted to me.  I just feel it.  I'm able to read how people feel directly because I'm able to read body language indirectly.

So what is your motivation for people not being explicit with their orientation? You want homosexuals to be mistaken for heterosexuals and heterosexuals mistaken for homosexuals?

Tollison

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Re: Sexuality
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2013, 02:36:10 am »
Humans are capable of intuitively finding a mate without having to call themselves a specific orientation.  I've been successful multiple times finding a one night stand and at no time did I have to ask if they were straight.  I've been successful at wooing women without even trying.  I had one ask me on FB to date her and it was purely by recommendation by her friend.  I know, and most humans, are capable of knowing how someone feels about us.  We aren't unconscious of feelings.

Yes I do want them to be mistaken.  Life is about cause and effect.  You must do something to receive an effect.  You don't have to call yourself anything unless asked of because you're capable of finding a mate through your own knowledge of common human activity.  It is no ones responsibility to mate with you but yourself.  You may argue that calling yourself something specific helps you find one which is true, but it is also true that if you understand why people do what they do you're capable of finding a mate without expressing your orientation by language.

Let me share a story of how I acquired my last woman.  We were at her house with 5 other friends on the porch and it was 4 AM.  I had arrived with two of my friends and when she saw me she pursued me by raising her tone in a polite way of better quality then how she greeted any of my friends.  We're all on the porch smoking and drinking and while I'm actively watching and listening to my friends I can see her look at me through my peripheral vision.  Nothing happened that night.  I gave all the women hugs, men handshakes.  TWO WEEKS LATER I felt the urge to bust a nut so I MSG her on FB if we can get together that night.  She asked me how I knew she was interested in me and I told her, "I just knew." 

If I am capable of achieving that then you are too because we are both human and can consciously know what happens around us and are both capable of making rational decisions.

Celestial_One

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Re: Sexuality
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2013, 03:28:28 am »
Congrats tolli, you were able to get a girl without her asking if you were straight. Kudos. Completely irrelevant though.

Here is the question

"Why should homosexuals and heterosexuals keep their orientation quiet"

You haven't answered this. You've just said "They can tell with practice".

I have news! You will not always be able to tell who is straight and gay just by meeting them and practicing this weird concept of don't ask don't tell.

Mine and chakra's stance = "Asking orientation is completely okay, because it avoids awkward situations by getting right to the point." You're ultimately saying "guessing is better than simple communication". Some crazy stance you hold honestly lol.

HaWkys

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Re: Sexuality
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2013, 04:25:42 am »
KK its pretty simple science guys..

Man and Women = Baby
Man and Man = Nothing

Being gay does nothing "nature wise" and is frowned on in most societies (by frowned on i mean unequal laws, ect. marriage, benefits.

koala

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Re: Sexuality
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2013, 05:23:32 am »
I don't even? Give one REAL argument why people shouldn't ask others about their sexuality if in case you were a homosexual and wanted to find a partner? Of course it doesn't make sense for a man to ask a woman if she's heterosexual.. because he doesn't have to and can always readily assume that she is into guys. Which isn't the same for homosexual males and females..

We understand that HaWkys but the fact is homosexuals do exist whether they are born that way or not is irrelevant. There are people that tend to dehumanize gays by arguing that it's 100% pure choice which is kind of retarded. Shouldn't make any difference when it comes to human rights and equality under the law anyway.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 05:32:01 am by koala »

Tollison

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Re: Sexuality
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2013, 06:44:35 am »
We can tell whether someone is attracted to us or not by practice.  Therefore liberating us from having to shout our orientation.

For one, sex isn't a subject of debate.  It's an accepted process.  Pornography is legal on a massive scale of the earth because most people accept sex as a pleasurable and helpful thing.  To ask me why you shouldn't call yourself a specific orientation is to ask too much of me.  I don't care about your orientation because it doesn't directly affect me or my state of being.  It affects you.  If you find your orientation discriminated against then do what you must do to make it acceptable.  Shouting out your orientation proudly is just power grabbing.  It's as if you believe the other orientation has power over you which is irrelevant because you're fully capable of making yourself as powerful as you want. 

if two individuals mate without ever discussing orientation, which happens frequently, then it is possible for all individuals to do the same with the only restraints being personal choice.

You're looking at this topic at an enclosed view.  You need to look at your orientation as the same as mine and then you will understand where I'm coming from.  Look at it as mere sex and not specific orientation.

I don't talk publicly about my relations with women but for an example and anonymity I did so, and I have also made a recent promise to not have sex anymore until I'm married.

Human beings are fully capable of finding mates without expressing their orientation orally.  There are more positive methods of doing so.
Ex. I had a man compliment my shirt, my physique, and my taste of sports at the bar and then at the after party he wanted to be near me and at the end of the night we hugged even though I signaled to shake hands and I walked away with no remorse nor thinking about what happened.  I was ready to go smoke with my amigos.

Sculpt your body and refine your personality to attract mates.  I don't have to tell you this because you instinctively want to. People that are open about their sexuality are awkward people to talk to.  IDC if you jizzed on their belly.  Who you mate with doesn't make me jizz unless your mate also mates with me.






koala

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Re: Sexuality
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2013, 06:59:40 am »
You still haven't answered why it's so important to not discuss orientation or sexuality between two possibly interested parties especially when it can help faciliate the relationship. Why do you value ambiguity so highly? Obviously heterosexual is the norm... but what about homosexuals? Why is it in your book homosexuals shouldn't EXPLICITLY ask someone they are interested in? It's called SCREENING for a reason males do it with women as well if you are trying to find someone that is DTF you will be more sexually aggressive and push the issue if she isn't interested you can find another girl. There is also a big difference with between "open" and comfortable with your sexuality. That doesn't mean bragging about all your sexual exploits to anyone that will listen. Like Cele and Chakra have been saying it saves a **** TON of guess work and does take someone comfortable in their sexuality to ask other people that's how you get your needs met.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 07:09:18 am by koala »

Chakra

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Re: Sexuality
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2013, 08:35:59 am »
Quote
Shouting out your orientation proudly is just power grabbing.  It's as if you believe the other orientation has power over you which is irrelevant because you're fully capable of making yourself as powerful as you want.
I can argue the same thing with nearly any social label. Religion, political ideology, views on abortion, views on eating babies, eating broccoli, way the toilet paper should face, etc.

Tolli, you come from a purely heterosexual normative paradigm. Chances are when you are looking for a mate, you look at woman and don't think, "She's probably a lesbian, but I'll try it anyways." Realize that more than 90% of my visually possible mates aren't actually possible mates, while 90% of yours ARE. This is BEFORE issues of their attraction to you.

But this is still irrelevant. What is wrong with people declaring their sexuality openly? Are gays making a power grab? Are we oppressing all the straight people by wearing rainbow bracelets and setting our Facebook interests to the same thing as our gender?

Tollison

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Re: Sexuality
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2013, 08:52:25 am »
It isn't important to to discuss orientation because we are capable of communing.

You think we are incapable of communing to find a mate?

All I'm saying is don't tell me you're orientation unless I ask you to.  If you want to try to mate with me then come get it.  Spit all the game you want, but you're not sodomizing Tollison.

Celestial_One

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Re: Sexuality
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2013, 09:47:55 am »
So what you're suggesting is that saying my orientation before being asked is offensive, because we should be able to tell which people are gay and straight just by instinctively knowing.

Kind of dumb lol.

Perry_Hewbes

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Re: Sexuality
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2013, 12:03:00 pm »
Tolli. I have a questions for you...

If an extremely obviously gay guy came up to you and started hitting on you would you just tell him you are straight or try as hard as possible to give him the same 'signals' you would give a woman you weren't interested in?

also, if you knew 9 out of every 10 women who you were interested in were lesbians, would you not ask any of them their orientation or tell them yours?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 12:09:16 pm by Perry_Hewbes »

Tollison

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Re: Sexuality
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2013, 08:45:29 pm »
It's offensive in nature.  If it was defensive then staying quiet about it would be offensive.

Perry, I would, and do, actively give off the same signals to everyone.  I'm willing to have strong relationships with everyone.  So far all of my gay peers haven't felt me up except my back.  They are huggers ^^.  Women I'm not interested in won't be interested in me.  It just happens as so.  I treat others as I want to be treated therefore everything just falls into place for me. 




Celestial_One

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Re: Sexuality
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2013, 10:19:45 pm »
Why and how is it offensive to ask what gender one prefers, especially if you're interested in that person, or if someone asks you because they're interested in you O.o

I wouldn't find that offensive at all...

 

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