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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chiefhero[sks] on September 23, 2013, 01:50:22 am


Title: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chiefhero[sks] on September 23, 2013, 01:50:22 am
(http://i.imgur.com/tnI9AhY.png)

wots de answers?

HOLY **** the picture is massive!

edit: posting my answers later. there might be several answers to the riddlez. interesting to see how ppl solven it. you can also post your own riddles eventually and keep the thread going.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: SamLowe on September 23, 2013, 02:15:02 am
Easy Mode:
Spoiler (hover to show)

God Mode:
Spoiler (hover to show)

I don't quite understand God Slayer Mode, the birdens are not invisible in this one or?
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 23, 2013, 05:13:10 am
God Slayer Mode!!!: I won't be sure of which door leads to heaven, but I would ask one bird which door leads to heaven and then I would take the opposite one because It's more likely to be that one.

TOLLISONS RIDDLE TO YOU:

There is a tube in the middle of your living room that can not be turned over and nothing is crafted well enough to reach inside to acquire the treat because it's very small and leaves no room to grab it with tools.

How do you acquire the treat?






Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Spoofy on September 23, 2013, 05:56:05 am
SamLowe (wbs?) regarding the easy mode, how would you know the answer if you asked the bird that lied? wouldnt it only work if you asked the bird that told the truth?
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 23, 2013, 06:46:45 am
The problem with this riddle is that you can only ask one bird one question leaving us with no answer from the other one.  You'd have to completely guess which door you must use.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chakra on September 23, 2013, 10:08:31 am
@Spoofy and Tollison
Just run it through your head, lol.

Since you are asking Bird 1 what Bird 2 would say, or Bird 2 what Bird 1 would say, it is "falsified" once, either way. That means if they say, "They'd say door on the left is Heaven" or w/e, it is really Hell, no matter what bird you are asking.

God slayer mode:
Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: SamLowe on September 23, 2013, 01:54:03 pm
SamLowe (wbs?) regarding the easy mode, how would you know the answer if you asked the bird that lied? wouldnt it only work if you asked the bird that told the truth?

Let's say Bird 1 is lying and Door A goes to hell. Bird 1 are then supposed to give me the answer Door B since that is what Bird 2 is saying but since he is always lying he will tell me Door A instead. Both birds will give me the door that goes to hell and therefore i pick the other door.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chiefhero[sks] on September 23, 2013, 03:15:05 pm
chakra solved the godslayer, enstek (samlowe) answered the first 2.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 24, 2013, 12:55:11 am
@Chakra and Amir: The bird would then ask which of his attributes.  The birds have many you know. 
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chiefhero[sks] on September 24, 2013, 01:06:41 am
the answer is something along the lines of 'which door holds the afterlife that best reflects your way of speaking?', which is basically what chakra said.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Spoofy on September 24, 2013, 01:36:08 am
i see now, lol... holy ****.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 24, 2013, 02:44:09 am
Bird A answers with truth and bird B answers with falsity.

Door A leads to Heaven and Door B leads to Hell.

If you ask which door best reflects their way of speaking then it's an illogical question.  Heaven and Hell may or may not be truthful in nature depending on the persons answering this riddle and what the birds believe also.  Therefore asking which door holds the afterlife that best reflects their way of speaking and finding the door you want would  have to be assumed. 

Asking one bird which door leads to Heaven and then taking the opposite one is the most optimal way of finding it without any hypothesis.

Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chakra on September 24, 2013, 02:57:02 am
Quote
Asking one bird which door leads to Heaven and then taking the opposite one is the most optimal way of finding it without any hypothesis.
Why is this more optimal than just taking the door they told you? Or just ignoring the bird and picking any door? It's 50% anyway, lol..

Quote
If you ask which door best reflects their way of speaking then it's an illogical question.  Heaven and Hell may or may not be truthful in nature depending on the persons answering this riddle and what the birds believe also.  Therefore asking which door holds the afterlife that best reflects their way of speaking and finding the door you want would  have to be assumed.
Sorry to break it to you, but Heaven and hell don't even exist. The riddle is that we can assume Heaven exists and is associated with truth and Hell exists and is associated with lies (hello John 8:44), as well that the birds are omniscient and speak English.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 24, 2013, 05:08:30 am
I start with 50% chance, but If I receive influence from a bird that lies then it would be in my favor to choose the other door.  it becomes 2/3 more likely to be the door to heaven opposite of what it says.

If I accept the truth birds statement then I still just have a 50% chance because I can't assume it's correct because there is a bird that lies as well.

It's a hypothetical statement to assume Heaven and Hell have traits associated with lying and truthfulness.  I don't believe Heaven or Hell exists either.  Unless you can prove that Heaven is truthful or Hell is untrustworthy then my option can be the only best answer.

Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chakra on September 24, 2013, 06:52:28 am
Quote
I start with 50% chance, but If I receive influence from a bird that lies then it would be in my favor to choose the other door.  it becomes 2/3 more likely to be the door to heaven opposite of what it says.
That's not how it works at all. If you randomly choose, you have a 50% chance. If you ask one of the birds "Which door leads to Heaven," you still have a 50% chance. They don't magically add together (and if they did, it'd be 75%, not 2/3rds).

Let me go over the "easy answer" once again.

Let's say Bird A is the one that tells the truth, and Door A is Heaven.

If you ask Bird A, "What door will Bird B say is Heaven?" Bird A will tell you, "Bird B will say Door B is Heaven."
If you ask Bird B, "What door will Bird A say is Heaven?" Bird B will tell you, "Bird A will say Door B is Heaven."

No matter the bird you ask, the second part of the statement is ALWAYS wrong, "...Door B is Heaven." This is because Bird A truthfully tells you Bird B's lie, and Bird B lies about what Bird A truthfully would say. You have a 100% success rate of getting into Heaven if you take the door not said to be heaven.

It does not matter which bird tells lies or which door is Heaven; the result is always the same: the second part of the statement is wrong.


The second component of the question stipulates you can't use the other bird as part of the question, so instead you just compound logic statements. Sam said:
Quote
Ask one of the birds to tell me the door that wouldn't be their answer to the question "Which door leads to heaven?".

Why does this work? Easy: because both tell you the false door once again.

If you ask the truth telling bird, it'll revert it's answer ONCE, telling you the falsehood. Truth -> False
If you ask the lying bird, it'll revert it's answer TWICE, telling you the falsehood. False -> Truth -> False

So you go into the door not suggested. Once again, 100% success into Heaven.


My answer, which is basically, "no internal ifs," uses something somewhat similar.
The truth-telling bird will indicate it is, correctly, going to Heaven.
The false-telling bird will indicate, incorrectly, it is going to Heaven.

Either way, both point to the door of Heaven, 100% success rate.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 24, 2013, 07:46:34 am
The first two modes were easy.  This is why I directly went to God Slayer mode.

God Slayer Mode: You don't know which bird is which and can't make a hypothetical statement such as, "which door matches your attribute."  1 bird tells you its door A then you either take its word for it or choose the other door.  Your answer will be random, but it will be based on your judgement of the bird.  If I hear that there is 1 liar of 2 then I don't find that group trustworthy so I'm going to choose the other door.

Your answer to God Slayer mode is. "what door matches your attribute."  You have to assume that their attribute matches where the door leads.  Heaven and Hell can be either truthful or false.  There is no implication in the problem where it says Heaven is a trustworthy place and Hell isn't.

Therefore the bird would instead ask you, "which attribute" instead of leading you to your desired pathway; leaving you to randomly choose which door you open.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: XXXandBEER on September 24, 2013, 08:28:38 am
Some people don't know how to use spoilers in this thread...

But let's make this a bit harder what if both the birds think they are telling the truth? MIND BLOWN
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chakra on September 24, 2013, 09:34:24 am
Quote
can't make a hypothetical statement such as, "which door matches your attribute."
That's not a hypothetical statement. "What door would you go to if you died" is.

Quote
Your answer to God Slayer mode is. "what door matches your attribute."  You have to assume that their attribute matches where the door leads.  Heaven and Hell can be either truthful or false.  There is no implication in the problem where it says Heaven is a trustworthy place and Hell isn't.
The "What door matches your attribute," is the generic question style, not what the question specifically is. I went with it because it was simple/easy to understand. A more proper question would be like: "Your defining trait of lying or truth telling would Biblically match which door?"

I stopped using spoilers after Amir decided the question solved.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chiefhero[sks] on September 24, 2013, 03:38:54 pm
Quote from: tollison
If I hear that there is 1 liar of 2 then I don't find that group trustworthy so I'm going to choose the other door.
it makes just as much sense to find the group trustworthy and go with whatever door they tell you (there is also 1/2 truthtellers ^^)

Quote from: tollison
Heaven and Hell can be either truthful or false.  There is no implication in the problem where it says Heaven is a trustworthy place and Hell isn't.
the riddle assumes that you know what heaven and hell stands for in 99.999999999% of litterature, as well as in the minds of 99.99999999% of people who believe in heaven/hell.

chakra just posted a variant of the "matches your attribute" solution. you can phrase it differently(like i did), but it's basically the same solution.




but either way tollison, your 'optimal solution' is identical to making a blind guess (50% chance of being right).

which door leads to heaven (truthbird) -> the heavens door
which door leads to heaven (falsebird) -> the hells door

taking the opposite door will lead you to hell half of the time you run the experiment (you don't know which bird is which obviously). it's not 2/3 chance of being right. it doesn't make more sense to act as if both birds lie than acting as if both birds tell the truth (50% chance of being right with both assumptions).

unless you show how the proposed answers from enstek/chakra give you less than 50% chance of being right, it would seem like you've posted the worst solution thus far (identical to making a blind guess, yet more hassle to go through).
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 24, 2013, 08:58:01 pm
Chakra, you're assuming that Heaven is a trustworthy place.  It's hypothetical to accept something as truth when you have no proof.

"Your defining trait of lying or truth telling would Biblically match which door?" is also hypothetical.  You're assuming the bird knows about all the bibles.  The heaven you're trying  to go to isn't a specified Heaven.  The bird will answer, "What do you mean by biblically"  leaving you with no more questions and leaving you to guess which door to open.

Just because 99.99999999% accept Heaven as a trustworthy place doesn't make it factually trustworthy nor should it be implied by reading the riddle.  If the riddle is to be answered there should be no misunderstanding of what's going on.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: XXXandBEER on September 25, 2013, 12:29:42 am
Chakra, you're assuming that Heaven is a trustworthy place.  It's hypothetical to accept something as truth when you have no proof.

"Your defining trait of lying or truth telling would Biblically match which door?" is also hypothetical.  You're assuming the bird knows about all the bibles.  The heaven you're trying  to go to isn't a specified Heaven.  The bird will answer, "What do you mean by biblically"  leaving you with no more questions and leaving you to guess which door to open.

Just because 99.99999999% accept Heaven as a trustworthy place doesn't make it factually trustworthy nor should it be implied by reading the riddle.  If the riddle is to be answered there should be no misunderstanding of what's going on.

That's what I'm saying what if both the birds think they are telling the truth?
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chakra on September 25, 2013, 05:58:44 am
Quote
Just because 99.99999999% accept Heaven as a trustworthy place doesn't make it factually trustworthy nor should it be implied by reading the riddle.
Everyone else knew what the riddle meant and implied. Heaven doesn't exist; the riddle stipulates it does and that Heaven is associated with truth-telling.

Quote
That's what I'm saying what if both the birds think they are telling the truth?
They don't.


You all need to take some social classes if you can't pick up on the implications that Heaven is associated with truth-telling, and definitely so in this riddle (and Amir saying I answered it PROVES this) and that the birds are omniscient.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 25, 2013, 02:42:14 pm
Chakra, you believe in Heaven.  About 2/3 of the human population believe in a heaven therefore the belief in God is widespread and implied for us all to believe it.  Your life stipulates that it does and Heaven is associated with your belief.

It seems your becoming ignorant of your own faith, Chakra.  Your explanations are very faith based.  You would make a great Christian, Chakra.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chiefhero[sks] on September 25, 2013, 03:04:09 pm
lol ^^

yeee maybe tollison is right tho? shouldn't have to assume anything when solving the riddle.

still dont understand how tollisons solution is ideal tho.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chakra on September 25, 2013, 06:16:57 pm
Quote
Chakra, you believe in Heaven.
No I don't.

Quote
Your life stipulates that it does
What is "my life"? Like... those around me? Nope: my entire family is agnostic, as well as a great majority of my friends.

Quote
If you break me
I do not stop working,
If you touch me
I may be snared,
If you lose me
Nothing will matter.
A classic riddle. Problem is it assumes that the heart can think, thus it's unsolvable!!!!
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 25, 2013, 08:18:59 pm
Not going to refute me on assuming what the riddle implies anymore, Chakra?

Easy and God mode are understood as solved, but God Slayer mode requires assumptions to solve it.  God Slayer mode = can't find out which door to open unless you imply that Heaven is trustworthy in the riddle.

My solution isn't ideal, Amir.  Sorry about that.  I was expressing a personal opinion on how to make the 50/50 decision ><
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: XXXandBEER on September 26, 2013, 02:22:39 am
Even bad guys think they are doing the "Right" thing so whose to say both the birds think they are telling the truth.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chakra on September 26, 2013, 02:53:43 am
The riddle assumes birds can understand English and that they speak English (or at least a language you know).

All parts require assumptions.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 26, 2013, 05:45:24 am
There are birds that can understand and speak English, but there isn't a Heaven for us to view. 
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chakra on September 26, 2013, 06:20:36 am
Quote
There are birds that can understand and speak English
No there aren't.

Saying parrots speak English is like saying this vbs script knows English:
Code: [Select]
stuff = LCase(InputBox("Speak"))

If InStr(stuff, "heaven") Then
MsgBox("Take the door to your left.")
ElseIf InStr(stuff, "hell") Then
MsgBox("Take the door to your right.")
End If

LOOK I CREATED AI IN SIX LINES!!! I SOLVED HARDEST COMPUTER PROBLEM EVER!!!!
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 26, 2013, 06:42:40 am
They don't speak it fluently, but they can speak it.  It is speech.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chakra on September 26, 2013, 09:46:25 am
Sure, they can "speak" words, but they don't understand it.

As stated, my program can print out words. Hell, I can make a SAPI call to make it say the words through your computer speakers.

But if you really want to argue the point, I'll go onto another assumption the riddle makes: there is not a banana in your mouth imparting you from speaking, nor is the room filled with vampires or lava.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 26, 2013, 09:03:23 pm
If they didn't understand what it was then they wouldn't say it.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chakra on September 27, 2013, 07:22:49 pm
So you agree the riddles are unsolvable without assumptions?
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 27, 2013, 08:51:11 pm
You're not assuming that they understand language.  You know they do because the riddle tells us so.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chakra on September 27, 2013, 09:51:26 pm
The riddle doesn't say there isn't a banana in your mouth.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 27, 2013, 10:06:34 pm
If Ï did I would peel it and share it with the birds.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: TraxxWOLF on September 27, 2013, 10:29:24 pm
Holy **** Chakra vs Tolli was epix to read through.
Classic humilation by chakrainho
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: HaWkys on September 27, 2013, 10:31:33 pm
dammit tolli thats + 1 for the fags.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chakra on September 27, 2013, 10:58:16 pm
Ok, so any answer to the riddle would need to include. "If I had a banana in my mouth, I'd need to take it out." Now you have to add EVERY conditional statement that might hinder you, such as having a tomato in your mouth, a chair in the way, etc.

Or you can just assume nothing is hindering you.

But whatever, it clearly shows you have ruined the spirit of riddles. Riddles, of course, require assumptions to be answered, just as everything does. The world operates on assumptions, and if we wish to be efficient, we must.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 27, 2013, 11:02:14 pm
Ok, so any answer to the riddle would need to include. "If I had a banana in my mouth, I'd need to take it out." Now you have to add EVERY conditional statement that might hinder you, such as having a tomato in your mouth, a chair in the way, etc.
No answer to this riddle would need to include what you're talking about.  Their understanding of language is an implication; not an assumption.

Or you can just assume nothing is hindering you.
You imply nothing is hindering you; not assume.

But whatever, it clearly shows you have ruined the spirit of riddles. Riddles, of course, require assumptions to be answered, just as everything does. The world operates on assumptions, and if we wish to be efficient, we must.

"The spirit of riddles."  I didn't know Atheists believe in spirits ^^.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chakra on September 27, 2013, 11:50:35 pm
Quote
"The spirit of riddles."  For an atheist you're very spiritual ^^.
****ing retard.

Quote
No it doesn't.  Their understanding of language is an implication; not an assumption.
WtF are you responding to? I said:
Quote
Ok, so any answer to the riddle would need to include. "If I had a banana in my mouth, I'd need to take it out." Now you have to add EVERY conditional statement that might hinder you, such as having a tomato in your mouth, a chair in the way, etc.

Or you can just assume nothing is hindering you.


EDIT (since Tolli edits his posts):


Quote
Their understanding of language is an implication; not an assumption.
I'm not talking about them understanding English, since you seemed to want to debate that. However, you can't speak at all with a banana in your mouth.

Quote
You imply nothing is hindering you; not assume.
Nowhere is it implied there isn't a banana in your mouth. Unless you argue otherwise; please, enlighten me where it is implied you don't have a banana in your mouth.

Quote
"The spirit of riddles."  I didn't know Atheists believe in spirits ^^.
Still ****ing retarded.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 28, 2013, 12:12:55 am
Quote
"The spirit of riddles."  For an atheist you're very spiritual ^^.
****ing retard.
This statement doesn't qualify me to being retarded.  Explain yourself in detail or refrain from name calling.

Quote
No it doesn't.  Their understanding of language is an implication; not an assumption.
WtF are you responding to? I said:
Quote
Ok, so any answer to the riddle would need to include. "If I had a banana in my mouth, I'd need to take it out." Now you have to add EVERY conditional statement that might hinder you, such as having a tomato in your mouth, a chair in the way, etc.

Or you can just assume nothing is hindering you.
I already answered this.


EDIT (since Tolli edits his posts):


Quote
Their understanding of language is an implication; not an assumption.
Quote
I'm not talking about them understanding English, since you seemed to want to debate that. However, you can't speak at all with a banana in your mouth.
Trying to speak with a banana in my mouth isn't related to the riddle.
Quote
You imply nothing is hindering you; not assume.
Quote
Nowhere is it implied there isn't a banana in your mouth. Unless you argue otherwise; please, enlighten me where it is implied you don't have a banana in your mouth.
The riddle doesn't mention a banana in my mouth.

Quote
"The spirit of riddles."  I didn't know Atheists believe in spirits ^^.
Quote
Still ****ing retarded.

Why is it?
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chakra on September 28, 2013, 12:14:12 am
I'm done with this topic, Tolli doesn't even respond to posts.

So it is henceforth concluded I answered God-slayer mode of the riddle and Tolli did not, as indicated by everyone but Tolli.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 28, 2013, 12:22:14 am
I'm done with this topic, Tolli doesn't even respond to posts.
I have replied many times.

Quote
So it is henceforth concluded I answered God-slayer mode of the riddle and Tolli did not, as indicated by everyone but Tolli.
I just proved why you were wrong and the only explanation to your proof of answering God-Slayer mode is by assuming everyone but me believes you are right.  No one else is posting quality arguments to this thread except you ^^.  The quality went downhill once you weren't able to define what you mean logically and resorted to using name calling.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: I_think_I_own on September 28, 2013, 02:37:02 am
If Ï did I would peel it and share it with the birds.
ROFL HOW MUCH OF A **** ARE YOU 1-10 LMAFO;
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chakra on September 28, 2013, 04:40:18 am
Anyways, since apparently Amir said the Riddle shouldn't require "assumptions," I'll expand on my answer (which was simply the most simplified form) and remove all required assumptions:

What door, from the understanding that Heaven matches truth-telling and Hell matches lying, matches your attribute of either always telling the truth verses your attribute of always lying?

There, I solved it and can get to Heaven with a 100% success rate, better than Tolli's coinflip.

Edit: Grammer
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 28, 2013, 04:53:29 am
No you didn't.  You're assuming that heaven is truth-telling and hell matches lying.  They must be implied within the riddle.  Stop posting already.  This is becoming spam from you.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chakra on September 28, 2013, 04:56:11 am
I defined Heaven as truth-telling and Hell as lying in my question, Tolli.

Your brain might be too damaged to read most recent posts, but maybe someone can read it to you?
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 28, 2013, 04:57:05 am
You can't define it in your answer.  It must be defined in the riddle.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chakra on September 28, 2013, 04:59:18 am
Why not?
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Tollison on September 28, 2013, 05:06:12 am
If I am able to define ANYTHING I WANT about the riddle outside of what the riddle has provided for us then I can make any possibility true.  By how you answer this I could just say: Bird A = truth telling bird so I can ask him which door is heaven and acquire it 100%.
Title: Re: RiddleZ!
Post by: Chakra on September 28, 2013, 05:08:14 am
I'm sorry, what was your question for the bird? Anything not included in the question is obviously frivolous.