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Messages - drewisfat

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Community Discussion / Re: Top 10 All Time ST players
« on: November 28, 2017, 08:38:57 am »

Community Discussion / Re: Where to play
« on: September 28, 2017, 04:46:45 am »

General Discussion / Re: Game Of Thrones
« on: September 07, 2017, 11:52:50 am »
She knew she was immune to fire. Maybe not that early, but she knew before the burn down the tent incident. She clearly expected to survive that by her speech. But that whole scene was terrible. Her cockiness that both she would survive and that the horselords were doomed was bizarre. It was unrealistic, unbelievably risky, and undermined the amazingness that was her emerging from the flames. The fire spread way too quickly and the horselords didn't even attempt to kill her.... which shouldn't have been hard. She didn't seem serious about the knocking of the fire over at all. 0 rush to burn all of them alive before they could hurt her. Characters often are cocky and stuff as they kill their enemies, and it's even fine for that to be a known character flaw (think Oberyn). But in that scene it just made absolutely no sense and broke any kind of immersion for me.

General Discussion / Re: Game Of Thrones
« on: August 31, 2017, 09:10:17 am »
Cersei is the rightful ruler of the seven kingdoms and I ain't gonna stand for anyone **** talking my girl. Virtually EVERYONE has been against Cersei from the beginning, yet Cersei's still managed to be in charge despite everyone else using LOLMAGIC cheats for everything.

Meanwhile Dany is like a 5-year-old spamming cheat codes and still failing.

- Targaeryn ancestry
- Arranged marriage making her Khalesi
- Gets immunity to fire
- Gets 3 dragons for free
- Randomly gets worshipped and followed by at least 4 elite fighters.
- Knocks over a few random bowls of fire, gains DOTHRAKI horde.
- Steals free supersoldiers with unrealistic loophole.
- Gets free Navy
- Says hi and gets 2 Great House allies

- Decides to risk Jorah's life multiple times, cuz she bitter he wasn't in love with her before he met her (seriously).
- Gets abducted like 3 times out of sheer naivete.
- Plunges a city into anarchy and constant rebellion by outlawing slavery institution. After putting down multiple rebellions in quick succession, decides to leave town, because that **** will definitely not crumble the second her dragons leave.
- IMMEDIATELY loses her Navy, Dorne and Iron Isles allies because she randomly had ships idling.
- Takes a worthless city on the west coast, and loses remaining ships, and you know, Highgarden.
- After essentially winning a battle, decides to fly her dragon TO THE ONE PLACE where it could conceivably get hurt for no damned reason at all
- Accidentally gifts a dragon TO THE UNDEAD, thus dooming the whole planet.

Community Discussion / Re: Sheep Tag - Resuscitated Hope
« on: August 31, 2017, 08:40:32 am »
Nice, but none of that is new

I would bet that Sidey, Amir, Chakra and Cookie could win that game 4v5. Each of them is better than anyone on the 2nd team, with the possible exception of Cookie. However Cookie is very good at building a lot of farms and not dying, which is all he has to do here for his team to be invulnerable. They may have some difficulty wolfing, but I could see them lasting the full 20 minutes quite frequently. Hawkys puts them over the top, and acts like an insurance policy. That team could make a major f*ckup and still win.

BW is kinda overrated, especially in consideration for a long team massing game. Also Chaise died in 30 seconds while he was at his peak. So I feel like you're redefining "peak" to mean doesn't make any mistakes.

Chakra really is beautiful. Like all westies he's underrated for being modest and for not playing a lot of revo, but at his peak (which came quite late) it would be hard to distinguish him from the best player.

I'll elaborate later but my votes are:
2, 1, 1, 1, 2, and 1.

The last one is the only really difficult one, as it's two very solid teams of tier 1 players, and every other team has at least some notable weaknesses. I'm tempted to think the easties prevail because Magoo ignores my orders and buys a golem, and shoop ignores his team's orders and manages to die to said golem.

Community Discussion / Re: Sheep Tag (East) A Complete History
« on: July 17, 2017, 07:05:44 am »
Chapter 9 -- Clan ESS

Although I did have fun playing Snipers, I still missed Sheep Tag. It was a great game and I didn't want it to end like this. So I spoke with the last SGOD.

Pure, X_Pure_X, egPURE, ngPURE, had many accounts. I've mentioned him before but I would like to elaborate more on him. He was my mentor and someone I had always respected. He was also probably my most memorable and closest long-term friend on wc. I really regret losing contact with him. He was a terrific wolf player and I learned much from him. But he was a very smart player in general, and in all games he played, dota, ladder, he had insane game IQ. His sheep as I said was somewhat mocked because he built randomly, but he turned what others would consider trolling into a very difficult to kill sheep. By building randomly he made it difficult for wolves to truly cut him off. He was ahead of his time, and I wish he would have played ST in the later days. I think he would have enjoyed it.

But perhaps the most important thing about Pure at this point in history, is he was the last of the SGODs. If there was going to be continuity with the east that was, he was the necessary leader. He had very little interest in this though. He didn't like leading clans, or even clans in general. And while he still liked sheep tag, he wasn't losing sleep over its demise. I impressed upon him the importance for him to take an active role in bringing back the game, and after a week of debate, he agreed on one condition: that I would be co-chief and that we would share duties so he would not be required to play sheep tag full-time. With that Clan ESS: Elite Sheep Sensei was born.

We were pretty much the only pro sheep taggers remaining at this point, and we had a hard road ahead of us. The main clan, ESS, would consist of the best players, which at this time meant pretty much anyone who had ever played the game before. We would have revolving chief/shaman accounts. I, however, would spend most of my time leading the training clan tESS, or maybe ESSt, don't really remember. But I was the one who actually wanted more people to play this game and I was going to do the brunt of the recruiting and training. Pure would be in charge of the war team and handle 'foreign policy' as it were. We both knew that was mostly a joke though, as there were no other clans at this point.

It was remarkably easy to find new members. The game was still very active and there was clearly a high demand for an organized clan for people to join. Ultimate ST was becoming a real issue though and there was a struggle to get members to focus on the pro maps. As part of that struggle, we finally accepted 7.5 was dead and that 7.1 Rev III would be the main map. It was more popular for new members, (i.e. everyone) and the bigger concern was with ultimate. TheWinner, maker of ulti, had some contact with the pro community and I spoke with him several times. He was not good himself though, and had no interest in joining the mainstream community. He was happy with his map being noob, and did not accept any suggestions that anyone gave him. Thus, Ulti was viewed with some hostility.

~~~Westy Contact~~~

We did in fact have the occasional contact with westies. It's hard to remember with who exactly and when. In modern times westies were thought of as nice, almost naively nice. This was not the case back then. Westies were an absurdly arrogant bunch and most of those that visited east were giant A$$holes. The most notorious jerk was the OC, aka Ubersheep. Pure really, really hated that kid and had told me about his evilness since I started playing. So when westies did arrive, pure was extremely cautious and suspicious about them. He also, I later came to realize, was embarrassed at the state of east and didn't really want them to see how weak and dead it had become. We were challenged to a clan war and debated about what we would do. I wanted to play. He told me bluntly that our defeat was a foregone conclusion. We would be humiliated, they would gloat, and we may even lose members to them. So his policy was mostly to avoid westies and limit their access to players.

That said, it wasn't lonely for long. Our clans grew and grew. Eventually tESS came to outnumber ESS as we handled the influx of players. 5+ new members would walk in every day, and most of them would be sent to the training clan to learn the basics of how we played. I had no idea who these people were, most of them just walking into the channel saying X told me to join, and half the time I didn't even know who X was. This overwhelmed pure, and for the latter half of ESS I had become in practice the main chief making all decisions for the clan, while pure became more and more bored with ST. This confused me, and with all the new members I didn't really understand why pure was getting bored and didn't put enough effort into keeping him involved.

At its peak tESS had grown to 100 members, and this actually forced me to start "graduating" kids early to shuffle them into open slots in ESS. The clan(s) had grown to 150 active players total. In 2 short months we had gone from nothing to the largest clan perhaps in ST history.

Why then, has no one ever heard of ESS??? That's A LOT of people. That's like the size of the whole modern day STC! I will tell you why. One day I had a really dumb idea.

It was time for a clan meeting! Why? Dunno. I had a list of things I wanted to address and needed to discuss with the n00bs, get them all on the same page, inform them of clan policy, etc. But mostly..... I just wanted to see how many kids I could get in the channel at the same time, not gonna lie. The answer was 56. So yeah we had to have this meeting in two channels, lol. And this is before modern bots were really a thing, so that didn't end up working well. Eventually it consolidated to 40, just from people being left out and playing a game instead.

So what did we talk about? Oh the elephant in the room. We had too many people to even fit in one channel at the same time. So spyblade offered this suggestion:
"We should split up."
A lot of people agreed. Pure was unwilling to clan war westies because we were too bad. But here I was teaching kids to be "good enough to war", with no targets. Many people echoed spyblade's complaint. In a desperate effort to retain control, I came up with a compromise saying we'd make different teams, an ESS A team, an ESS B team, a C team, etc. I knew this was still a flawed approach, but at this point I just wanted this discussion and the meeting to end. They wouldn't be organized enough to act on this on their own. I could ride out the storm. So that was that. I said "I'm bored, let's play some games" knowing that would be echoed by many, and the meeting ended.

Pure was present throughout the meeting but was eerily quiet. Later that night, after everyone went to sleep, he came back online. He logged onto the shared account and disbanded ESS. Then he logged onto a shaman account in tESS and kicked everyone out.

I did not handle that well. Seriously, young drewy rage moded and burst quite a few blood vessels. I suppose rational drewy would have just remade the clan and got as many to rejoin as possible. But that's not what I did. For starters, I didn't even know most of their names. And secondly, I had been backstabbed by Pure, my best friend in the game. I was done with this sh*t. I told Pure and spyblade to go **** themselves, removed them from f list, made another account and joined a snipers clan.

Many reading this might agree with Spyblade and I get that. And that may be right. But from my perspective I had just put in a TON of effort for months to essentially build my mega clan, and just when it was starting to get good, it was over and a friend had backstabbed me. And what ever did end up happening to all those members? There was no organization, no leadership. No one made a single clan after it disbanded. They all just disbursed. People weren't around each other long enough to form enough friendships or connections, and without the clan channels where would they go to meet each other to form new clans? And most of them were probably like 10 years old anyways. So that was it, even quicker than it came, it was gone. 

Community Discussion / Re: Sheep Tag (East) A Complete History
« on: July 16, 2017, 01:00:31 am »
Chapter 8 -- The Dark Ages
  :o :o :o :o :o :o

The Date: December, 2004   +/- 3 months.

This is not for the faint at heart or the emotionally unstable to read. Please send your children off to bed. It all happened so fast. One day the world was normal, the next there were riots in the streets, abandoned buildings burning to the ground.  Frappa, Pigger and 2nd quit and disbanded hcst. tac0 didn't die immediately, but Ydoc was largely inactive. Pure was picking up ladder. Like 90% of the pro ST community quit within a month. People quitting accelerated more people quitting. Some of the remnants fled to west. Up until this point, it was common to see 5-10 sheep tag games in the custom games list during prime hours. Overnight this dropped to 2-5. That breakdown was more like:
70% Ultimate
20% Rev III
5% 7.5
5% Perfect/10.1

Barely recognizable from just a month or two earlier. There were no clans or clan channels left to rally to. Those of us who remained had to just make our own public channels to organize games. And most of the time we weren't even playing ST at that point. I started playing mini games with Beth, Pure and Smot instead, like Murder in the Mansion, pictionary or Uther party. I even joined a snipers clan for a while and played that and a little dota. East Pro ST it seemed had collapsed completely. 

Community Discussion / Re: Sheep Tag (East) A Complete History
« on: July 16, 2017, 12:42:24 am »
Chapter 7 -- The Phoenix Rises! HCST

Good news! They did come back! Frappa, pigger, 2nd, Ydoc all came back. Upon their return I immediately instructed my clanmates to rejoin hcst, now branded with a "t", b.c we decided sheep taggers was two words I guess. After all I was never in SGOD and therefore didn't have the legitimacy to lead a pro clan anyways  :D
For my efforts and continue loyalty I was immediately made Shaman. Pigger pulled a dramatic 180, treated me with insane respect, considered me part of 'the core' of hcs. Feels good bruh. I had also improved dramatically. At this time period the best players were likely me/2nd/frappa/ydoc followed a bit by pure and pigger.

Ydoc came back a little bit later and then settled on making clan tac0 along with Pure. Clan tac0 also had some notable grunts:
- Miss: Real name Beth, was just an awesome, fun person to hang around. She was never known as being a great player, but was a solid player and good at a variety of games.
- Smot: Smot emerges on the scene. Similar to Beth, he was not a terrific player, but a very chill dude. He mostly joined tac0 because they were 'nicer' than hcs.
- Bansaw: Another average player who played for a quite a while. He's most notable to me as being a super 7.5 fan. Later he would learn how to host games, and he was perhaps the last player hosting public 7.5 games.

Also in hcst:
- My-World. I'll start by saying this is contested by My-World, and I'd be pretty arrogant to say I know better when he started than he does, read my addendum earlier on name dropping. But in my mind this when I associate him having started playing, essentially in the "3rd generation" let's call it. And some people actually did try to label things by generation, with SGOD being gen 1, and old hcsers being gen 2.

tac0 and hcst players were still rivals, but were a lot less hostile than they were the prior year. Maybe we just matured, or maybe it was just the influx of super friendly players that lead to a detente as it were. But there was lots of fun to be had. Unfortunately 7.5, the map I respect the most, had lost its plurality lead in pub games being hosted. If I had to estimate the breakdown of pub games hosted on east it would be:
30% 7.1 Rev III,
30% Ultimate
25% 7.5
10% Perfect
5% 10.1

The gameplay had become slightly more team oriented. At least in the sense that it was understood to be likely if everyone on your team was good their bases would eventually merged, so at least good wolves would try to focus fire on one sheep more often to try to prevent that. Sniping was still a very big deal, but now on 7.1 at least that was much more difficult to achieve. It was still possible to tree hide in the bottom right corner of 7.1 Rev. III, something that was used as a big excuse among easty pros to avoid that map. Still the divide was growing as 7.5 was now clearly an outdated map compared to Rev III, and west played Rev III almost exclusively now. 2nd was a big proponent of playing 7.1 to stay in communion with west, but the avg easty was torn.

Unfortunately Mitnek did not return, or perhaps did but not for long, I don't recall. Sadly he did not play much after getting his name on the map that would make him a legend. He crafted nearly the exact terrain that we used in modern times and for that he gets a 3 gun salute.

Community Discussion / Re: Sheep Tag (East) A Complete History
« on: July 16, 2017, 12:02:04 am »
Chapter 5 - Continued (playstyle)

Backbuilding wasn't really possible. If the wolf was close enough to you that you had to backbuild in 7.5, he'd more than likely swing through that farm and kill you anyway. In other words virtually nothing you see in run tag today would work back then. Instead when sheep were taking it easy or goofing around they would have to either manipulate trees and hard farms (like Alex popularized) or...

- "Line tagging". Basically prebuilding a bunch of lines and utilizing terrain to avoid shepherds. Line tagging was actually not totally joking around and was a quite legitimate strategy up to this point. While it was known that golems could jump farms (even known that they could jump 2 farms, though not well understood), most players were not fluent with this, and the sheep in general always played far away from the shepherds.  So instead they'd have to spend a whole 7 hits to kill a farm.

-Hard Farm Massing. Also a thing. A very powerful thing. Hard farms back then were a little bigger visually than they are now, and a lot stronger. Nowadays if we see a sheep nearby build a hard farm, we just attack it quickly and kill it midbuild. This was not possible then. Instead the farm would take a little damage but finish building. Thus it was quite a popular strategy for rich sheep to mass hard farms all over the map late game. Frappachino was very, very fond of this. He would often actually hide the sheep under the top of the hard farm. They were bigger back then, and most modern methods of locating sheep were either not in the game or not well understood. Thus it would be hilarious to see wolves running around literally not knowing where he was.

It also should be noted that Open(Alex) stopped playing at this point. The Godfather of sheep tag had left for good. Brown1430 actually was still on wc3, but only played ST very, very rarely. It was still impressive how quickly he built though. Raptos would also play wolf occasionally still, but he was pretty much a loner and rarely hung out or talked to people. 

Chapter 6 -- Sheep Tag 7.1 Revised III

The most famous and played map in sheep tag history was created by a team of Arxon_Havencroft (lead designer) [JEDI shaman], Gagazet (theorycrafter) [JEDI Chief] and Mitnek (terrain) [Hcs shaman].

This was a very big point of pride for hcs, as despite being an easty clan, one of their members helped make the new map. Mitnek was in short, a very humble hero. In reality he mostly got rid of trees, cheap spots, and smoothed out some of the bumps. But still here he was being chosen to help JEDI make their new map.

This map revolutionized the game. It greatly reduced the range of wolves from 7.5, and increased slightly sheep and wolf speed. Short of a giant lag spike, sheep no longer died 2 farms in their mass. It was even possible to diamond aggressively next to wolves, something that was far too risky in prior maps. It was also practical to backbuild. This revolutionized the game. This threw a lot of wolves off and took major adjustments. "Angling" meaning clicking ahead of the sheep to gain ground faster became very mainstream. It was known before, but not really necessary. A new sword that gave +30 damage and cost 300g (?) called Anti's saber was added. (I thought this was named after Anti-Drug a legendary westy wolf, but Rival says it was named for the whole ANTI clan). This allowed wolves to start dealing serious damage to farms, and for the first time you saw wolves 3 hitting farms towards the end of a round. This map also would really allow run tag to be a thing. Or as Sheepgod would take some weird pleasure in pointing out, it was called "Run st" at that time. Supposedly.
Something else was added that I'm sure most of you will take pleasure in. The stack farm!!!!! A 10g farm that could be built anywhere (model looked a bit bigger than today). This farm was added in the words of Arxon "As a form of anticamp". Of course that same day I asked him why he hated Ultimate and he said "anticamp is noob". Irony not lost on him. Anywhos, stacks on this map were used primarily to force saves in the middle. Gradually they would be used outside of that, but keep in mind wolf range was still high enough in this map where if you could only backbuild a stack farm and not a normal farm, you'd almost certainly get killed through the farm.

This map, while widely praised was not without controversy. Some westies still clung to 7.5. And on East 7.5 was still king. Despite their differences, Frappa, Ydoc, Pure and most of the playerbase still preferred to play 7.5. Thus for a while both maps were accepted as the main pro maps, and despite the differences in gameplay, active pros would have played both to some extent.

Back to clans. I think I can name drop deadass here as having started playing. Although I do get him mixed up with deadoralive, so I'm hesitant. But he was an old player who had played a lot longer than most people realize. Hcs activity had peaked. Both hcs and 13a5 got pretentious and picked up influences from westy clans, particularly Jedi. Instead of recruiting whoever wanted to join, they started having tryouts, consisting of usually a combination of 1v2 or 1v3 play, a diamond 2 minute massing speed and a grid 2 minute massing speed. These were naturally made somewhat out of proportion to what the clans actually accepted. If 13a5 said they accepted a 120 2 min speed, you know hcs would say their limit was 125. So these numbers got inflated pretty quickly. Then the question is what happened if someone couldn't make your speed? The answer was training clans. Clans in west and then east all pretty quickly started having these training clans, ostensibly because their own clan was exclusive, or in some cases it was claimed that the clan was full. In practice even though some clans had reached the 100 member limit, this was due to a lot of akas/inactives and was more of an excuse to be exclusive than anything else.

All good things must come to an end though. Eventually east entered a period of decline. The senior leaders in both hcs and 13a5 started trying out other games, mostly dota, and despite having reasonably large bases, they ended up disbanding.

In an effort to keep everyone from abandoning the game I made my first clan. I actually don't remember its name right now. Fortunately I know somewhere on Alt the name is camouflaged with grass texture. This was mostly a channel. I don't believe I even made any shamans. It was more of just a stopgap, hoping that some of the former SGODers would return.

Community Discussion / Re: Sheep Tag (East) A Complete History
« on: July 15, 2017, 11:20:34 pm »
I know screenshots / dates / name drops would be really helpful. Unfortunately I have no screenshots. Dates are also difficult. It was a LONG time ago, and what's worse is that what feels like 3 months back then may have been only 1 month. I try to be conscious of that fact when I write "several months later" but I wouldn't be surprised at all that if you try to add up my timeline it doesn't work out. There are, however, a couple of solid dates I can point to. I don't know what the date is, but it's probably Googleable when clans were enabled on WC3, and that would give you a timeline for when SGOD and Behh were created. I'm not sure of the first westy clan. The two oldies that come to my mind right now are fr0z and wudi, but I'm unsure if those were just super old or were created on the very first day. If Rival comes back I'm sure he could share A LOT of history on West.
Everything I've written to this point was before TFT came out. I'm going to attempt to drop TFT coming into play, but that's actually difficult for me to do because it had virtually 0 effect on East for a long time.

Name dropping is also inherently hard. Not only was it a very long time ago, but everyone starts out an unimportant noob who wouldn't be on my radar. By the time they were on my radar, it would be difficult to say if they started 3 months ago or 2 years ago. People also tend to have a big bias towards making themselves out to be more oldschool than they actually are. It was almost laughable how many people in 2010 talked about the game in 2004, when there was 0 chance they played before 2006. We might be able to get a date on when a couple maps came out which would be helpful. And of course, I have a solid date for when StH was created, but silly you thinking that's the next clan to get mentioned here ^_^

Some revisions (I'll clean all it up when I'm finished, but for those who already read the first posts): A notable person I forgot was LordBlueBalls. LBB was an SGODer and shaman of hcs. He was by far the most inactive of the shams, and basically quit for a while soon after I started. He did come back though, but even though he was rusty, Pigger/2nd wouldn't dare diss him due to SGOD status. I got along with LBB, but that might have been because by the time he knew me I was already decent. He's definitely of the same cloth as Pigger and 2nd are.

Also I got SGOD mixed up with XROC (the OG ladder clan) at some point. And it censored out hcs, which stood for h@rdc0re sheep.

Community Discussion / Re: Sheep Tag (East) A Complete History
« on: July 15, 2017, 08:05:51 am »
Chapter 5 - Hcs Challenged!

Hcs grew and grew. Ironically Pigger was in charge of "recruitment" despite being godawful at that, and frappa along with others did most of the recruiting in reality. Pigger mostly just told pubs look how **** good I am, come be my ****. Eventually there were pros who were not in hcs (besides Pure). Hcs doctrine usually referred to them as semi-pros or sometimes just plain noobs. One of the first alternate clans (name forgotten) was lead by MonsterGarage, a very, very chill dude. The best way to characterize Monsta is Ed if he smoked a lot of weed. One of his notable shamans was BBGS-Cutie, my first wc3 love. I truly miss her. Would totally date irl. It was a much smaller clan, but there were in fact clan wars on east for the first time. Hcs was dominant and never lost to them.

A later, more serious challenge grew from Ydoc. He had been playing on west, where the competition was much fiercer. He was part of clan 13a5 in west and eventually he moved back to East and made a 13a5 branch there. Ydoc was SGOD blood, and thus had legitimacy in making a pro ST clan, which bothered the hcs leadership to no end. They were very, very hostile to Cody (yes his name is ydoc spelled backwards, so cute). Ydoc also brought along a westy 13a5_MassDeath formatted with some weird symbols like 13a5_Massl)3ath, idr. He played a considerable amount on east and was quite good, meaning this clan had at least 2 pros on the same caliber as hcs shamans. While they perhaps never had a superior shaman crew overall, these two players made them more than just noob posers, and frappa, Pigger, 2nd HATED them. What's worse is Ydoc was perhaps the best host on East in these days, and being host gave a tremendous advantage. This made him games popular among hcs grunts, which made the leadership very upset, as Ydoc was good enough to be the best player in any game he hosted. Pure for his part didn't like Cody, but at this point was so fed up with hcs, that he preferred 13a5, or at least loved the idea of hcs having competition. He would be willing to sub in for them in clan wars, while not actually wanting to join their clan. This naturally caused all kinds of debate about the legality of such a move, as 3 top tier pros meant a serious threat in any clan war. They were still the bigger clan and had more top tier players, but there was now a clear rival, and Ydoc looked like the best player in East during his host. Not to mention coming from a west clan, Ydoc had more west allies than hcs did, which clouded the picture in West of which East clan was dominant.

The reaction from hcs leadership was censorship of 13a5 and occasional exile of members who "played too often" with them. This threat kept most of the members in line. They also started routinely visiting and playing with westies to gain more experience, especially in clan wars, vs their newfound rival. Mitnek and 2nd played the most with westies. The result was 2nd thought he was becoming better than frappa and pigger, while Mitnek was actually becoming even better than that.

I was at a special crossroads at this point in time. I had become in practice the best of the hcs grunts, on par with or perhaps even better than Akraea. I also was friends with Pure, and more and more started hanging out and learning from Cody. This drove Pigger especially crazy. More than once he called for me being kicked from the clan. Frappa and I were good buddies though, and 2nd was concerned that if I left and joined 13a5 that would shift the balance of power from hcs superiority to equality with 13a5. So as much as 2nd didn't like me, his priority was always being the best and the clan being the best. As such, I faced no consequences for associating with cody and pure. Ydoc himself saw me as an opportunity to turn the scales as well and repeatedly ask me to clan war for him if hcs wasn't going to let me. Upon hearing this Frappa decided as long as I pledged continued loyalty I would be used in some clan wars, mostly replacing Akraea. Clan wars were usually 4v4 at this time, so it was 4 out of 5 of Frappa, Pigger, Mitnek, 2nd and Akraea. Akraea had been playing less and less and was overall such a nice person and a friend that she didn't mind if I took her spot a few times.

Due to increased competition hcs started playing 7.5 Pro, a 4v4 map more often. People would practice 2v4 vs pubs or 4v4 with clanmates. Frost farms were also a little more expensive I think, and cyclones removed. Most easties still diamonded. Brown1430 when he played still gridded the normal way exclusively though. Mitnek also tended to grid in serious games. Pure had started to build sloppily all over the place, making it more difficult to cut and golem jump him although he had smaller masses.

West had grown substantially and was probably 5-8 times bigger than East, truly dwarfing it in size. A westy could much better elaborate on the big names and the big clans. Towards the end of this period clan Jedi emerged as the strongest ST clan in the world. They were seemingly unbeatable on the battlefield, and hcs got demolished in several clan wars, to the point where even Pigger admitted they were better. He actually tried out for and was very proud to have made it in clan Jedi, as they had instituted very strict tryouts to join their clan and it took him several attempts. It wasn't just mass speed but you had to 1v3 (IIRC) their shams and be impressive.

I've obviously omitted Europe. Obviously as clan behh was made the first day clans were allowed as well, there was a European community. They had virtually no contact with West-East (although Sidey had moved gateways and was playing in west at this time). The maps the Europeans played would not have been considered competitive or serious. I am not familiar with old Euro maps, but they would have likely been considered on par with other pub maps of the day.

However, a new map had emerged on the pub game landscape, "Ultimate Sheep Tag". This was based off 7.5 terrain, however it was more closed off. Instead of the one noob box 7.5 had, this one had 3, as well as a spiral. This was more conducive to pub play as most people couldn't mass well but could build a base in a corner, build savings farms and then mass stuns. Stuns were smaller, and with enough gold to support many of them, could stop an approaching shepherd cold in their tracks, even kill them. To the chagrin of the pro community, the mapmaker TheWinner didn't care about any of their input and wanted to do his own thing. Prior to ultimate coming out, the pro maps 7.5 and 7.1 were also the plurality of maps hosted publicly. Ultimate with its newb focus would eventually come to occupy a bigger and bigger share of these games. Most pros just saw ultimate as replacing 10.1 and perfect, and it was preferable to those, so they viewed this as a good thing. Eventually though ultimate would have a negative impact on recruiting new pros.

Community Discussion / Sheep Tag (East) A Complete History
« on: July 15, 2017, 07:17:30 am »
This is my attempt at a detailed history of Sheep Tag from the perspective of east server (obviously) but occasionally touching on other servers. I will try to mention key players whose names have been lost to time. While I will try to make the information as accurate as possible, a lot of this is digging up old memories, and some information will inherently be inaccurate, and more will be missing altogether. This is for NMCDO so he may share the story of our game after I have departed this world.

Chapter 1 -- In the Beginning

Most of sheep tag's pre-history, before clans existed is speculation, but some facts can be derived from the maps that existed back then. Early on the map was 9v3. When I say map, I should really say maps. They were changed and updated quite frequently. The mainline pro map took place in a square smaller than the entire map. It's clear at this stage map developing was so new that the makers didn't even have a firm grasp of how to easily change the map's size and did so with terrain impediments. However, this map could actually be jumped of with a 7x7 farm block and the sheep could be unreachable by the shepherds. Needless to say, this was not very stable, although it was likely not known/abused at the time. Many of the farms we know of today were still on that map, but a few like magic, frost, "stun" weren't present or were in different forms. Wolf damage was quite low, somewhere in the 8-14 hits to kill a farm range depending on the version. Dolly, the legendary floating sheep was actually present way back then on these maps, before being subsequently removed soon after. Still the fact that Dolly is still famous yet was only present in maps no modern players played is quite astonishing.

This was importantly not the only map. The two main competitors were 10.1 and Perfect Sheep Tag. It's clear ST split into "noob" maps quite early on by these all sharing the same 9v3 team structure. 10.1 involved a lot of tree hiding and unit building. Perfect had less tree hiding but still was a unit building, noob base map. Wolves could buy ghouls, sheep could save wisps with "meat wagons". Indeed these maps more resembled tree tag than what we think of sheep tag, and is perhaps where the inspiration for tree tag came.

Chapter 2 -- Clan SGOD

The first ST clan on East was made on the first day that clans were enabled. The chieftain was Open(Alex). Some notable members include shamans Raptos and Brown1430; and grunts Pure, Frappachino, Ydoc, Piggerpiglet and 2nd_a-k-a_sheep.
- Alex in his role as first clan chieftain was essentially the primogeniture of East ST. He was the best sheep player at the time, and was widely respected for keeping a cool temperament and pushing the then boundaries of the game. He would go on to pioneer run tag (although it had no name at that point). He would use trees to manipulate wolves losing their locks. In this time period this was revolutionary and truly devastating as very few players knew about A-walk.
- Raptos was considered the best wolf player in east and a senior leader (shaman) in clan XROC. While there were other shamans known to me, I have since forgotten their names and didn't interact with any but Raptos personally.
- Brown1430 Brown was initially arrogant but mellowed out and was overall a good friend by the time I met him. He was known for being the fastest grid masser on East, and (contested) fastest in the world for a while.

It should be noted that the East pro community was in communion with West pros, who had also made 1-2 clans the first day they were enabled as well. The west pro community at this time dwarfed the East pro community anywhere from 2-4 times as many players. However, they did play the same maps and both supported the rise of the MD Team and the leader Star who developed 7.1 during this time period. That map served as the basis for the terrain that still exists in today's main sheep tag map, a truly remarkable feat. The most noticeable difference back then was a lot of trees and areas where the sheep could "jump" into the trees and be untouchable. Such play was obviously BM, but could be somewhat countered by orb splash damage a wolf could use attacking an image. The wolf damage was still extremely weak, 8-10 hit farm kills. As people got better, due to the nature of the game sheep became more OP than in previous maps and the teams were 8v4.
People were also starting to experiment with weirder maps. There was one map that SGOD made, mostly as a joke, where you could build "ancient SGOD warriors" (footmen) if you knew the code. What was interesting about that map though was that the pen was on a giant mostly unbuildable mountain and that wisps had pretty OP spells like slow and maybe even cyclone. It showed that the question of how the pen and wisps should be balanced was still completely up in the air.

Chapter 3 -- The Fall

SGOD did not last long unfortunately. Many of the core players got bored with sheep tag and had begun to dabble in roc Dota. After 3-6 months the clan disbanded. There were a couple remakes with most of the original crew but these died even quicker. Thus after a slow start compared to West, East then suffered a massive die-off.

Chapter 4 -- HCS or "The Golden Age of Sheep Tag"

This is the beginning of the 1-2 years that some Westies (and I concur) refer to as the Golden Age of ST, where ST had more players in the 'pro' community than at any other time.

Clan hcs or **** sheeptaggers was created by the grunts of SGOD who were not ready to give up and move onto dota.
- Frappachino: (usually called frappa) was the honored chieftain. He was one of the best of the grunts, but more importantly the nicest and the only one people would follow. He was a big pioneer of the frost farm and while not the fastest masser, was perhaps the most difficult to kill. This earned him a lot of respect.
- Piggerpiglet: was frappa's right-hand man. A tool of the nth order Pigger was widely despised but was perhaps the most influential person on East besides frappa. Though he was perhaps arrogant to think he should be chief, he on some level knew people would not follow a tool of his magnitude, and he much preferred being a jerk than trying to lead others.
- 2nd_a-k-a_sheep: If Pigger was the right hand, 2nd most certainly was the left hand, virtually equal in rank to Pigger. He was also, a giant tool. He was more condescending while Pigger would just outright hurl childish insults. I'm unsure if 2nd was his account name in SGOD to be honest. He changed accounts quite frequently, and I suspect he settled on 2nd during this time period to subconsciously put out the notion that he was 2nd in command and the 2nd best STer, not Pigger. They did have somewhat of a rivalry, but mostly united on being superior to the rest of the clan.
- Mitnek: Another shaman of hcs, Mitnek was a relative newcomer and not part of the SGOD crew. This was in some ways held over him by Pigger and 2nd. However, Mitnek would continue to improve and eventually became the clan's best player. He was relatively humble, and eventually his skill and hard work made him beyond reproach.
- Akraea: Another shaman of hcs Akraea was the first female ST player on East. However, that fact is very contested, as Pigger HATED her and did not believe for a second that she was a girl. Due to this many had doubts, and Akraea herself (or himself) did not dwell on gender and didn't do much to assuage these rumors, and only claimed to be a girl a couple of times. I'm still unsure to this day, but I believe she was in fact a she. Akraea was also my first friend in the community. Number one on my friendlist, a spot that she holds to this day, as I'm very sentimental. She wasn't exactly the person to find me in pub ST and bring me to hcs, but she was the one to convince me to join and keep me there despite Pigger/2nd's **** streaks. In many ways she was the least respected of the original Shamans, but frappa had made the decision that she was shaman and that was final, so it wasn't questioned.
- drewisfat: Yes, this is where I come into the picture. I was a grunt in the early stages of the clan.

The main map played at this time was 7.5, a map very similar to 7.1 item and balance wise, but with much more open and somewhat geometric looking terrain. Wolf damage had settled to 7 hit farm kills, which it would stay at for a long time. Frost farms, aura farms, and upgrade farms were pretty much standardized and were the same then as they were today (although frosts looked a lot bigger). Sentry farms were also big, gave high sight and were actually the strongest farm. There was also a big stun farm that was mostly useless and a clear sign of "noobness". Cyclone farms were also a thing but were very taboo as they caused people to randomly drop from the game. They were also obviously OP and not allowed in serious games. They were notably though, the first 'stack farm' in that they could be built anywhere, enabling the same sorts of tricks stacks could, but at a cost of a whopping 75 gold.

This is also the time period where diamonding became absolutely the dominant form of massing. Some of this was due to the fact that it was harder and thus a sign of being a good player. However, it did make sense at the time as a strategy. For starters, with the high delay everyone had compared to today, you could diamond nearly as fast as you could essentially grid. Also back then wolves were obviously much weaker but had INSANE range. It was very, very common to die inside a row of farms from the wolves. The fence in the middle was not safe to be near as a sheep as the wolf could easily swipe you through it. It was even possible to die one farm away from the wolf without ever having slipped out of the mass and back in. And if you were entering the mass the combination of range and high delay at this period of time meant it was quite possible for a wolf to seemingly kill you 2 farms away. This was called an "extendo(e)" and was a common thing to complain about. Due to this the best tactic as a sheep was to just gain as much ground as possible (diamonding) and stay the hell away from the wolves. Fittingly the best wolf tactic was to try to snipe the sheep. Team massing was not really done at the start. Most players had sections of the map they were known to build in that would often associate with their sheep color (hence people became known for being certain colors of sheep). Sheep were good enough at massing, and with the newly developed skill of diamonding to mass enough of the map to combine with allies and to potentially mass the whole map.

Akraea and I would usually mass the bottom left 'square' in a double diamond formation. 2nd preferred the right side of the map, Mitnek preferred top or right, frappa and pigger preferred the left or top. This was actually a thing.

It should be noted that there was an idea on East of the great import of clan SGOD. It was an issue of legitimacy. The leadership of SGOD had the right to make a clan and lead the gateway, but while Alex, Raptos and Brown would occasionally play, ST was no longer their main game. So after a few months of unstable or no clans, frappa, 2nd and pigger claimed the legitimate right to make the main clan as the remaining active members of SGOD. This was challenged by Pure, who was still an active player, but did not believe "the peons" were legitimate heirs and refused to join hcs. This was perhaps mostly prompted by Pure despised 2nd and pigger. The argument was that he, as the most senior grunt, was superior to them and would never join their clan. SGOD clearly had some sort of grunt/peon differentiation, but it is unclear what it was or how strict it was. So I know I listed them all as grunts earlier, but it was perhaps the truth that frappa was a grunt while pigger and 2nd were peons, but I cannot say for sure. The main point is that while kind of hilarious, this was a real thing they fought about. This was a real doctrinal hierarchy that many easties believed, and due to the relatively small size of SGOD and small player base at that time, it was up for much debate and historical revision.

Community Discussion / Re: Top 10 All Time ST players
« on: June 02, 2017, 03:09:10 am »
Wow has Rival reappeared after all these years!?

Or is it just Sheepgod ^^

My list was headed with "Ranking includes an arbitrary balance of skill/influence on the game/culture dominance in realm". So given that Star is most credited with the first "pro" maps his influence really can't be understated. Both modern pro maps and the "Ultimate" maps can be traced to 7.5 and 7.1.

I don't know who Anti-Nos is. I listed Anti-Drug because his reputation was that of being the best wolf at the time. I didn't make up that reputation, that came from westies. But from the times I played with him I saw nothing to doubt it. Also his philosophy of treating players perhaps better than they were and not buying golems influenced me.

I also put 30-seconds Chaise high on my list for Euros because being the leader of Behh at the time when all 3 gateways started playing together was a hugely influential position.

Mike's list of East "from old to new" is quite confusing, as not only did I play a couple years before philo, but Master-Shep (#10) also played before Philo. I remember finding Ed in an ulti game soon after the collapse of ESS on East. He was noteworthy because he was the first person I saw there who actually preferred wolf. He never gave up and usually won. He was my first and most trusted follower :)

Kenny played a bit sometime post 2010. While he was possibly the best player at one point, he was underwhelming in the face of modern competition.

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