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Author Topic: Dota 2 Custom gaming  (Read 3878 times)

Madhatters

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #120 on: January 12, 2016, 07:23:35 am »
Okay so we played around a bit. Found some noteworthy issues:

Wolf attack animation speed is way too slow. You can't kill a sheep that is running away from you, even if it's standing still when you start the attack.

Wolf range is way too high. You can swing on sheep well inside of their mass (not that you'll hit them ^^).

A lot of the items don't work (guessing you know this), and necklace of immunity causes wolves to miss 100% of their attacks.

A few things about mirror image: The ability animation is really slow, so using it to jump farms for a kill would be basically impossible. A couple of times the ability resulted in the shepherd/its illusion being stuck between farms. Images are kinda hard to tell apart from the real unit. Using image at the bottom of the map while facing down caused my image to go on for a really long distance before eventually (like 10 seconds) just teleporting me back to the same spot, though this may have been because i was surround by some farms at the time. The ability can also travel over hills.

Frost farm missiles can't be dodged, making it seem overpowered. I'd also like to see some sort of construction animation if possible.

Sheep speed is pretty low (360 vs I think 380 of revo), very noticeable when runtagging.

When building a farm, the sheep sometimes seems to teleport the last little bit to the farm, might just be a visual thing, but it looks choppy and sometimes the sheep still stays pretty far away. Hard farms and wide farms can be built from very far away.

008 disconnected during the start of one game and then reconnected after I spawned as wolf, but wasn't allowed to play and the round didn't end, so we had to restart the game (a -cancel or -restart within the first minute or so would be nice).

It's really hard, for me at least, to see where you can build/walk near the edge of terrain (especially since the buildings don't always turn red when they can't be built). And you can jump down/up levels of terrain really easily (not necessarily a bad thing).

Sometimes an attack command on a standstill sheep caused the wolf to run back and forth in the same area indefinitely.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 07:27:11 am by Madhatters »

a_dizzle

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #121 on: January 12, 2016, 11:19:11 am »
Wolf attack speed should be the same as it was in 7.7.4, so should the sheep movement speed. I'll double check these though.

I'll try to reduce the attack range of the wolf but it can only go down a small amount since it is already struggling to hit large buildings on corners without running to a side. Also if the sheep isn't within 185 units from the shepherd when the attack lands it will miss.

Which items don't work? They all should work correctly. I'll check the necklace item.

How fast should the illusion move? It currently moves at 500 units per second. I wasn't sure of the mechanics for the illusion so as long as the terrain is blocked it will continue to move forward until it finds a spot or 10 seconds. Should it not go uphill? The illusions should be blue but when I add a nodraw to it for illusion stuff it gets removed :(.

Frost projectiles are tracking are they not?

I'll look at the revo version again to see how far large farms are built away. It is hard to build rts mechanics in a game that isn't one.

I'll thought I fixed all the disconnect issues. I'll add a reset command if i can't figure it out.

Edge of terrain? The buildings will always turn red when it is hovering over in-traversable area.

Attack command thing is a pathing issue valve has to address with larger units.


« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 11:20:49 am by a_dizzle »

Chakra

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #122 on: January 12, 2016, 07:51:17 pm »
Quote
Wolf attack speed should be the same as it was in 7.7.4
Both attack speed and back-swing animation delay matter. I think the back-speed is something like 300ms.

Quote
Also if the sheep isn't within 185 units from the shepherd when the attack lands it will miss.
That seems like a random number. It's either 192 or 224 in WC3 (check range motion buffer, which I think is added to the range to determine how far the unit can be when the attack lands).

Quote
How fast should the illusion move? It currently moves at 500 units per second. I wasn't sure of the mechanics for the illusion so as long as the terrain is blocked it will continue to move forward until it finds a spot or 10 seconds. Should it not go uphill?
You can check the speed in WC3. It'd be listed under the ability. The mechanics for imaging is relatively complicated. First, it scans the area from origin for a viable area to place the unit, up to a max of like 7.5 farms (scanning in a spiral grid). Then it checks if the area is the same level as the source. If it isn't, it then scans from there up to a max of 5.5 farms for a viable area of the same level. Illusions can only land up hills if a space becomes occupied while the image is trying to be placed. The Bulldog map that makes testing image physics relatively simple (the one with the long hill jump).

I don't exactly remember all of these numbers and don't have WC3 installed anymore. But they should all be verifiable.

a_dizzle

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #123 on: January 13, 2016, 12:55:07 am »
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/changelog/435131884

I have updated the following:
- Fixed spell immunity causing you to not be able to hit sheep
- Adjusted attack range to hit sheep from 185 -> 224
- Adjusted far sight from 600 radius to 1200 radius
- All Shepherd aura items are global now instead of 600 radius
- Adjusted sheep movespeed from 360 -> 380
- Adjusted movespeed of golem from 420 -> 300

@Chakra do you have a more detailed psudocode or code for the mirror image function? I can't seem to find it.

I didn't change the attack rate since it should be fine at 1.5 secs, animation back-swing points at 0.3 secs do not affect the overall attack rate of 1.5.

I'll try to fix up the range of units so building is closer as well as the distance shepherds can attack from but it may never be the same as it was in wc3.

For future reference all game definitions for items, abilities and heroes/units can be found here https://github.com/ynohtna92/SheepTag/tree/master/game/dota_addons/sheeptag/scripts/npc
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 01:25:55 am by a_dizzle »

Madhatters

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #124 on: January 13, 2016, 03:24:18 am »
The attack rate is fine, the animation delay is the problem. From your hero file:
Code: [Select]
"AttackAnimationPoint"       "0.6"       // Normalized time in animation cycle to attack.
//"AttackRange"                "150"       // Range within a target can be acquired.
"AttackAcquisitionRange"     "150"       // Range within a target can be acquired.
//"AttackRangeBuffer"          "74"        // Extra range the target can move without canceling the attack
I'm not sure why range/rangebuffer are commented out, but it seems like a shepherd can start an attack on a unit within 150 range, and takes .6 seconds from starting an attack to actually dealing damage. During this .6 seconds, the unit being attacked must stay within (150+74 = 224) range of the shepherd. Sheep move 360 * .6 = 216 range in .6 seconds, so if they are moving you are never going to hit them. The values in wc3 are:
Code: [Select]
"AttackAnimationPoint"       "0.3"       // Normalized time in animation cycle to attack.
//"AttackRange"                "32"       // Range within a target can be acquired.
"AttackAcquisitionRange"     "650"       // Range within a target can be acquired.
//"AttackRangeBuffer"          "192"        // Extra range the target can move without canceling the attack
AcquisitionRange in wc3 meant the range a unit would recognize an enemy and automatically attack them (if they weren't a worker or doing something already), not sure what it means here.

Frost farms didn't track in revo, they had 125 area splash damage on a point target (600 missile speed, 600 range).

Is it possible to have two attacks? One for sheep, one for buildings?

Images travel at 1000 speed, and I think the pseudocode is something like:
Code: [Select]
p = casting point
level = terrain level at p
p2 = p offset by 128 range 90 degrees from casting unit facing angle
level2 = terrain level at p2

perform some sort of BFS from p2 on cells to find the nearest point at which a shepherd sized unit can be placed,
ignoring all cells that aren't at terrain level <level2>, and breaking after cell distance from p is > some value
(maybe 1280ish).

p3 = the point returned by BFS, or p2 if no valid cell was found

if (level != level2)
   perform the same BFS, except from p3 and excluding cells not at terrain level <level>,
   the point found is the final destination or there is no valid destination.
   p3 = point returned by BFS or null if no valid destination
else if (p3 is not a valid cell) // The first BFS didn't find a valid cell
   p3 = null
 

If (p3 == null)
   put shepherd at the original spot (p), I guess. wc3 had some sort of image cannot be created error that might apply in this situation
else
  start the missile animation towards p3, constantly checking to make sure p3 is still a valid location, and BFSing from p3 to find a new valid location if it isn't.

repeat for the image (mark p3 as occupied in the image's code)

(Emphasis on pseudo, and should be double checked)

PS. I would argue for making the image always get sent to the nearest of the two final destinations so the real would always be the one traveling over farms/jumps/fences.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 04:43:42 am by Madhatters »

a_dizzle

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Re: Dota 2 Custom gaming
« Reply #125 on: January 13, 2016, 06:42:01 am »
I'll fix the frost tower and image next but here you go for attack range, attack speed and hull size changes.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/changelog/435131884

The attack rate is exactly as it was in wc3 but it feels soo much faster. If you ever get swung at you will never be able to run out of range.

 

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